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U.S. is an Oligarchy...

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  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,099 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    But I thought this replaces currency? If there is no currency what do I use to obtain goods and services which I myself can't produce?


    You go to a distribution center, get what you want, and swipe your energy card to record what goods and energy were consumed so the goods inventory can be replenished. This concept of more energy available than can be consumed in any given time period is the most difficult thing for people to understand because they have only known the contrived scarcity of the money system. The abundant availability of energy from the sun and the available knowledge and technology to convert it to goods and services makes the concept of scarcity of goods and services obsolete.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,276 Senior Member
    But what if it's cloudy out Ed?
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 6,021 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    You go to a distribution center, get what you want, and swipe your energy card to record what goods and energy were consumed so the goods inventory can be replenished. This concept of more energy available than can be consumed in any given time period is the most difficult thing for people to understand because they have only known the contrived scarcity of the money system. The abundant availability of energy from the sun and the available knowledge and technology to convert it to goods and services makes the concept of scarcity of goods and services obsolete.

    So you are trading goods and services for energy credits....that is called currency.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,276 Senior Member
    Ed,

    Which energy card is best here?



    energy_cards_by_wingsofimagination-d36anic.jpg
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,099 Senior Member
    It's normal to ridicule something you don't understand, so at least you're normal.
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    Don't let it get you down Ed, you're putting up a good argument. However, I still see the choke point as non-renewable resources, if I want a car but there is no longer any iron ore available for steel to make the body or axles I'd be screwed. No oil for plastics to make new thingamajigs so they can't be had, etc.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 6,021 Senior Member
    Ed,
    So who assigns the currency, or energy credits, to us? Is it done by the government? Is there a Worldwide Bank of Energy? Do we all get an unlimited supply? If not who decides how much we each get? Are all energy credits equal, for example is a unit of sun equal to a unit of oil or coal? What about pollution? Are carbon credits bad but wind ones are good?

    Also, if we all have an unlimited supply then how does the economy work? For example lets say I am a farmer and raise crops and cattle. Why would I want to sell you some food for more energy credits if I already have an unlimited supply?


    Since you have said we already trade goods and services for energy credits I don't see how this works when there is an unlimited supply of the credits? Where is the demand? It sounds to me like an unlimited amount makes it a completely inflated for of currency? How does it have any buying power? Why do I want more when I have enough to last forever?
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,276 Senior Member
    Ed,

    Does it make your stomach turn when you reach in your wallet and have to "touch" a $20 bill to pay someone at the grocery store or gas station?
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,099 Senior Member
    The society would be based on the most energy efficient use of natural resources. Without the influence of money, a great deal of wasted use of natural resources would be eliminated, thus preserving our natural resources to the greatest extent scientifically possible. How long will our natural resources last? With the replacement of fossil fuels with renewable energy what oil is left will last a lot longer (and we won't have to start illegal wars in the M.E. to control what's left). Automobiles will largely be replaced with mass transportation so Iron ore and other resources will last longer than they do in the money system.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    You go to a distribution center, get what you want, and swipe your energy card to record what goods and energy were consumed so the goods inventory can be replenished. This concept of more energy available than can be consumed in any given time period is the most difficult thing for people to understand because they have only known the contrived scarcity of the money system. The abundant availability of energy from the sun and the available knowledge and technology to convert it to goods and services makes the concept of scarcity of goods and services obsolete.

    I think you over estimate our ability to extract that energy. You also leave out the necessity of other resources and commodities involved in the manufacture of goods and services. Most importantly, labor. Unless this is a society run completely by automation. Which brings another host of problems.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,276 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    It's normal to ridicule something you don't understand, so at least you're normal.

    Why yes, I am. Thank you kind sir.
  • FlyfisherFlyfisher Member Posts: 95 Member
    EdB wrote: »
    You go to a distribution center, get what you want, and swipe your energy card to record what goods and energy were consumed so the goods inventory can be replenished. This concept of more energy available than can be consumed in any given time period is the most difficult thing for people to understand because they have only known the contrived scarcity of the money system. The abundant availability of energy from the sun and the available knowledge and technology to convert it to goods and services makes the concept of scarcity of goods and services obsolete.

    Ed -

    A number of trophy hunters show up at the distribution center, each wishing to hunt Cecil the lion. They all know there is only one Cecil. Who gets to go on this hunt? How is the selection determined?
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,276 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    Automobiles will largely be replaced with mass transportation so Iron ore and other resources will last longer than they do in the money system.

    But what if I don't want to ride on a mass transportation system next to 100 other stinky people and their crying poopy diaper kids? I've already played that game before on buses, planes and trains. I really hated riding the train when I was in D.C.

    I prefer to be in my own automobile to get where I want to go on my own schedule.
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,210 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    But what if I don't want to ride on a mass transportation system next to 100 other stinky people and their crying poopy diaper kids? I've already played that game before on buses, planes and trains. I really hated riding the train when I was in D.C.

    I prefer to be in my own automobile to get where I want to go on my own schedule.

    You would be eliminated..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    Why yes, I am. Thank you kind sir.
    Ed's premise is erroneous, he hasn't met you!:rolleyes:
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,099 Senior Member
    I think you over estimate our ability to extract that energy. You also leave out the necessity of other resources and commodities involved in the manufacture of goods and services. Most importantly, labor. Unless this is a society run completely by automation. Which brings another host of problems.

    As much human labor as possible will be replaced with automation overseen by people. Thus most mundane physical tasks will be automated and people will be much freer to enjoy their personal pursuits and hobbies. The problems will be different from today but I think more readily dealt with than in the restrictions of the money system.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 6,021 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    Automobiles will largely be replaced with mass transportation so Iron ore and other resources will last longer than they do in the money system.

    So who has the cars that aren't replaced? The elite?

    Does mass transit take me out in the woods to go camping and fishing? Or is that eliminated? How do I get there?
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,995 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    Does mass transit take me out in the woods to go camping and fishing? Or is that eliminated? How do I get there?
    You get a bicycle for personal transport. One speed and coaster brake.
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,099 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    So who has the cars that aren't replaced? The elite?

    Does mass transit take me out in the woods to go camping and fishing? Or is that eliminated? How do I get there?

    There won't be an elite, the cars would be available and maintained by people who have chosen that activity as their contribution to society. One would travel by modern, efficient, comfortable mass transportation to near their camping or fishing destination, and then use one of the vehicles to go further.
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 4,372 Senior Member
    As to the original subject....

    Huffpost: WASHINGTON -- A new oligarchic era of American politics came into full view on Friday, as super PACs disclosed fundraising details showing billionaires bankrolling the 2016 presidential race to an unprecedented degree.

    The unlimited-money super PACs account for one-third of all federal election funds raised in the first half of 2015 -- up from 4 percent at this time in the last presidential election. Three-quarters of all super PAC money came from more than 500 wealthy donors, corporations and unions in contributions above $100,000. More than half the money in the presidential race so far -- to super PACs and to campaigns -- came from donors who have given at least $100,000.

    For the first time in more than a century, the majority of funding for a presidential election is coming in six-figure or larger checks from corporations and the wealthiest Americans. The presidential campaigns, limited to a maximum of $5,400 from a single donor, raised a combined $128 million. Super PACs supporting those candidates pulled in $260 million, with $208 million from those giving $100,000 or more.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    .. and people will be much freer to enjoy their personal pursuits and hobbies.

    My personal hobby is throwing dollah bills at strippahs! Will this be different under Technocracy?
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,276 Senior Member
    Hextall wrote: »
    My personal hobby is throwing dollah bills at strippahs! Will this be different under Technocracy?
    Under Technocracy you would throw thermite at them.
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,210 Senior Member
    Hextall wrote: »
    My personal hobby is throwing dollah bills at strippahs! Will this be different under Technocracy?

    That used to be my hobby too till we switched to $1 and $2 coins. Left bruises.

    Bros? [Fist Bump]..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 6,021 Senior Member
    Hextall wrote: »
    My personal hobby is throwing dollah bills at strippahs! Will this be different under Technocracy?

    Yes, you will have to toss them a shocker.

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