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Bush and Cheney...

EdBEdB Senior MemberPosts: 3,099 Senior Member
....committed war crimes according to Richard Clark.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/29/richard-clarke-george-bush-war-crimes_n_5410619.html

Former Counterterrorism Czar Richard Clarke: Bush, Cheney Committed War Crimes

The Huffington Post | By Shadee Ashtari

Richard Clarke, the nation’s top counterterrorism official under former Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, accused Bush and former Vice President **** Cheney of committing war crimes in their 2003 invasion of Iraq during an interview Tuesday with Democracy Now! that will air next week.
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Replies

  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    That IS a thought provoking article. One of Ed's better finds.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,281 Senior Member
    flytrap wrote: »
    That IS a thought provoking article. One of Ed's better finds.
    Not really. It's just more of the same from Ed.

    Not sure why he is continually infatuated with this stuff.
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    Of course it's more of the same, Ed wouldn't be Ed otherwise. But this article seems rather better substantiated than the one he usually gives. As to his fixation, why are any of us the way we are? There is no "normal" and I sure as Hell wouldn't want to be. You? {Not being sarcastic there}
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,210 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    Not really. It's just more of the same from Ed.

    Not sure why he is continually infatuated with this stuff.

    I'd say more concerned than infatuated. Actually more power to him, if we would pay more attention to what our politicians are up to, this stuff might not happen.

    'Course it is more important what Caitlyn, Kim and Kanye are doing..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,281 Senior Member
    ricinus wrote: »
    I'd say more concerned than infatuated.

    I say infatuated.

    http://forums.flyfisherman.com/search.php?searchid=906756
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    Not really. It's just more of the same from Ed.

    Not sure why he is continually infatuated with this stuff.

    If he is right though, wouldn't this warrant concern? If this were about Obama, you would be all over it.
    "Waterboarding is a war crime, unwarranted surveillance ... all of which are crimes," Wilkerson said in 2011. "I don't care whether the president authorized him to do it or not, they are crimes."

    I am not convinced that any verdict that is derived without the accused being allowed to present his case and face his accusers is valid. As to Wilkerson's indictments, the administration sought the advice of council before proceeding with the enhanced techniques, and the surveillance of Americans is only prosecutable in an American court. We can spy on anyone we want outside our borders and many other countries do.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,281 Senior Member
    If he is right though, wouldn't this warrant concern?

    Not really. Seems to be an ongoing thing that common folk have no control over so why get worked up about it?

    I get being concerned about this stuff but I don't let it consume me to the point where thats all I talk about.
    If this were about Obama, you would be all over it.

    Nope. But since you mentioned it...


    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/11/amnesty-us-concealed-troops-war-crimes-in-afghanistan-as-recently-as-last-year.html
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    Not sure why he is continually infatuated with this stuff.

    The ironic thing is you continually ruminate on why Ed is so infatuated with this stuff. To find the answer, look in the mirror.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,281 Senior Member
    Hextall wrote: »
    The ironic thing is you continually ruminate on why Ed is so infatuated with this stuff. To find the answer, look in the mirror.
    Funny guy. :cool:


    Maybe if Ed discussed other things besides war crimes/money system I wouldn't ruminate about his infatuation.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    You should call your IT department, as your computer must be broken. Mine doesn't automatically open Ed's posts. Come to peace with the fact that Ed's set in his ways. The why's don't matter anymore. He's gone. Eat at Arby's.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Clarke's reference to a trial by the ICC is off the mark.

    First, we aren't members.
    Second, even if we were, the ICC had no definition of war of aggression until 2010.
    Third, even if we were, our actions didn't violate the Geneva Convention.
    Fourth, even if we were, the ICC does not hear violations of the UN Human Rights Convention. Only the Security Council does (of which we are a member).

    Personally, I don't give a fly you know what, but I recognize that others do and I believe they have good some valid reasons for their opinions.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    Not really. Seems to be an ongoing thing that common folk have no control over so why get worked up about it?

    I get being concerned about this stuff but I don't let it consume me to the point where thats all I talk about.



    Nope. But since you mentioned it...


    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/11/amnesty-us-concealed-troops-war-crimes-in-afghanistan-as-recently-as-last-year.html

    Why worry about whether or not a president sent thousands of our countries bravest to die in war that was based on a lie?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    Not really. Seems to be an ongoing thing that common folk have no control over so why get worked up about it?

    I get being concerned about this stuff but I don't let it consume me to the point where thats all I talk about.



    Nope. But since you mentioned it...


    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/11/amnesty-us-concealed-troops-war-crimes-in-afghanistan-as-recently-as-last-year.html

    You got something that does not come from a lying **** rag?

    But just so we are clear, Obama's pentagon was Bush's pentagon and will be Hillary's pentagon. This is not something that changes significantly with administrations. They don't clean house upon their arrival.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,281 Senior Member
    Hextall wrote: »
    You should call your IT department, as your computer must be broken. Mine doesn't automatically open Ed's posts. Come to peace with the fact that Ed's set in his ways. The why's don't matter anymore. He's gone. Eat at Arby's.
    Ha!

    You are right that he's set in his ways.

    Oh well...
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,281 Senior Member
    You got something that does not come from a lying **** rag?
    .

    No because I'm not too concerned. I posted the first link I found, just for fun, in repsonse to your Obama comment.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    BTW that is all he talks about on here. I am sure he doesn't call up his grandchildren and say "Did you see the latest article on **** Cheney?"
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    BTW that is all he talks about on here. I am sure he doesn't call up his grandchildren and say "Did you see the latest article on **** Cheney?"


    You're sure?
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,099 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    You're sure?

    "Why worry about whether or not a president sent thousands of our countries bravest to die in war that was based on a lie?"

    Can you answer Comic's question Joe?
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    Hillary's pentagon? God forbid. Anybody but the sleazy ****.
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    Hillary's Pentagram would be more appropriate.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    "Why worry about whether or not a president sent thousands of our countries bravest to die in war that was based on a lie?"

    Can you answer Comic's question Joe?

    I'm Steven
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    I'm Steven

    You're sure?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Let me check.

    Yeah, I'm sure.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    I'm really sorry I missed Mormon Day.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    You're sure?

    Reasonably. The one time we met, we talked about fishing.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    flytrap wrote: »
    Hillary's pentagon? God forbid. Anybody but the sleazy ****.

    Please tell us you will leave the country if she wins.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Reasonably. The one time we met, we talked about fishing.

    Wouldn't it be nice if he did that here?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Well in fairness I think the conversation went like this.

    Me: Did you catch any?
    Ed: A few.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,281 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    "Why worry about whether or not a president sent thousands of our countries bravest to die in war that was based on a lie?"

    Can you answer Comic's question Joe?

    It's unfortunate that it happened Ed, but worrying about it isn't going to change what happened in the past, and most likely won't prevent it from happening in the future.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/if-bush-is-a-war-criminal_b_5416535.html
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    How many wars do you think we stayed out of because of the American experience in Vietnam? I think the comparison to LBJ, and Nixon is a valid one and their legacies have been stained by that war.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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