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Can someone please explain to me why Sandra Bland was still in jail after three days?

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Replies

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    And....here we go. Never fails.

    Oh please. I was saying that I knew you were smart enough to not present this "Let's suppose Ferguson, Baltimore etc. was a good enough reason to fear getting out of the car" as a valid argument.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    Maybe the people and situations of today that cops have to deal with are different than those pre-9/11, causing today's cop to be more authoritative than the past.



    I agree she should have gotten out of the car and then sued his **** later for brutality.

    http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/06/lapd-cop-convicted-for-beating-handcuffed-woman-that-died/
    LAPD officer Mary O’Callaghan was captured on her dashcam repeatedly kicking the handcuffed and leg-shackled suspect in the back of her patrol car in 2012, kicking her in the throat and groin.

    The woman, Alesia Thomas, lost consciousness and was pronounced dead at a hospital.

    http://ktla.com/2015/07/23/judge-to-sentence-lapd-officer-caught-assaulting-woman-on-camera/
    A Los Angeles police officer was sentenced to 36 months in jail Thursday for assaulting a South L.A. woman in an incident that was caught on video by a police cruiser camera.

    Mary O’Callaghan’s sentencing comes amid intense scrutiny and criticism nationwide of police use of force. The last 20 months of her sentence were suspended meaning she’ll likely spend a little more than a year in county jail.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Oh please. I was saying that I knew you were smart enough to not present this "Let's suppose Ferguson, Baltimore etc. was a good enough reason to fear getting out of the car" as a valid argument.

    And you still did not answer my question.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Wasn't Ferguson, Baltimore etc. the news you referenced?

    Anyway, is it possible he might have asked her to get out of the car to arrest her without beating her? Has Encinia never before asked a black person to step out of the car? Has Encinia ever before beaten a black person that stepped out of the car?

    Listening to the recordings, it doesn't sound like she was scared of stepping out of the car. Sounds like she was on the rag.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    No I was referencing the known fact that black people are more likely to be beaten by a cop under the color of authority and his behavior gave her adequate reason to be fearful.

    What was he going to arrest her for? Not using a turn signal? I don't know that Encinia has ever beaten a black person for stepping out of the car, but I am willing to bet it is not an uncommon occurrence in Texas.

    Further I don't see how you can listen to that recording and come to any other conclusion than this cop was a *****.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    So every black person now has the right to disobey a lawful order from a cop? Is that what we have descended to?

    He wasn't going to arrest her at all. He wasn't even going to give her a ticket according to the dialogue.

    Encinia: You mind putting out your cigarette, please? If you don't mind?
    [/because **** always say please]

    She was a ****, he became a ****. He should have been able to deal with it and probably let his ego get the better of him. But it took two to tango here.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    By the way, if his plan all along had been to assault her, why didn't he beat her black and blue once he finally got her out of the car?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    So every black person now has the right to disobey a lawful order from a cop? Is that what we have descended to?


    So every cop is allowed to be an abusive bully? Is this what we have descended to? She has every right to say no doesn't she? Why should she stop smoking in her own car?

    If she was not under arrest, why should she get out of the car?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    She has every right to say no doesn't she? Why should she stop smoking in her own car?

    If she was not under arrest, why should she get out of the car?

    She must get out of the car, when asked, whether she was arrested or not. In Pennsylvania v. Mimms, the Supreme Court said that the effect on the driver's search and seizure rights was outweighed by officer safety concerns.

    If the cigarette smoke was somehow interfering with Encinia's ability to do his job (like the smoke was rising into his eyes), he was within his rights to demand she put it out (even in her own car).

    Nothing bad went down until she refused to put out her cigarette. Until that time, Encinia was polite (check the transcript). She needed to make a point, he needed to prove he was the man.
    Two people danced this dance.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Yes because she was such a threat. He is a **** and a bully and should not be a police officer.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    He is a **** and a bully and should not be a police officer.

    Yes. And she was Mother Teresa.
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    After all is said and done, she did not deserve to die in a jail cell.

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    ricinus wrote: »
    After all is said and done, she did not deserve to die in a jail cell.

    Mike

    And that is the takeaway.

    Last time I got pulled over I turned my radio down, but not off. It was quite low. To be an ****, the cop asked me to turn off my radio. I think he got this trick from the Breaking Bad episode where Walt got maced. Anyway, cops are ****. My only question is whether they turn their recruits into flaming **** or if they just attract that type of person.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Yes. And she was Mother Teresa.

    It doesn't matter. He was the only professional in the situation and should have behaved as such. So we should only feel bad when saints are mistreated with our tax dollars?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    ricinus wrote: »
    After all is said and done, she did not deserve to die in a jail cell.

    Mike

    And had she been released on OR instead of forcing her to cough up bail, she probably would be alive today.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    It doesn't matter. He was the only professional in the situation and should have behaved as such. So we should only feel bad when saints are mistreated with our tax dollars?

    Bull.
    So what she's not a professional? She was a 28 year old adult.
    She absolutely knew what she was doing. She thought she was going to get away with it. Turns out she wasn't as smart as she thought she was and didn't know the law.
    She bears responsibility for getting arrested as well.

    I see her arrest as an almost complete non-event. If Encinia hadn't said, "I'm going to light you up," it would have been.

    Now, the question is what happened to her. Autopsy came back a few hours ago - ruling is suicide.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    If he had just given her a ticket and let her on her way, there would have been no confrontation.

    She is not a professional in the sense she does not get pulled over daily. He is a professional paid by tax dollars and he failed miserably in his duties.

    This right here makes my point.
    Turns out she wasn't as smart as she thought she was and didn't know the law.

    BTW get away with what exactly? What was she trying to get away with?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    He wasn't even going to give her a ticket. If she had tossed her cigarette there would have been no confrontation.

    Yes, he failed. We all agree with that and you don't need to repeat again for the umpteenth time. The question is, does she bear some responsibility? My answer is yes.

    She was trying to score political points with this cop. Was it because she styled herself some type of Black activist? Given her social media postings, this seems a possibility.

    Btw, it doesn't make your point, because Encinia told her the law. Being stupid has consequences.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    And had she been white, she probably would be alive today.

    Edited for mo' accuracy.
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    It's amazing to me how many of you hate cops. Every time I've been pulled over, 4 or 5 times in 50 years of driving, the cop was right and I was in the wrong. Any time I've interacted with them they've been polite and helpful. Given they can be called to put their **** on the line at any time, frankly, I'm surprised at the LACK of bullying and aggression.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Who hates cops?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    He wasn't even going to give her a ticket. If she had tossed her cigarette there would have been no confrontation.

    The ticket was already written when he went back to the car. Why should she toss her cigarette? There is no law against smoking in your own car. He could have just handed the ticket to her and been on his way.
    Ms. Bland has a right to smoke in her car, but Trooper Encinia could argue that the cigarette was interfering with legitimate police business. Since he had already processed the papers, however, “I don’t see a good reason,” said Robert Weisberg, a criminal procedure expert and law professor at Stanford University.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Yes, he failed. We all agree with that and you don't need to repeat again for the umpteenth time. The question is, does she bear some responsibility? My answer is yes.

    Then you are wrong. There is no law that requires you to kiss an officer's ****. She can have all the bad attitude she wants and he has to as a professional take it.

    You still haven't explained what she was trying to get away with.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    I don't hate cops, but to allow a simple traffic violation escalate as it did shows some serious issues in his suitability for the job..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    The ticket was already written when he went back to the car. Why should she toss her cigarette? There is no law against smoking in your own car. He could have just handed the ticket to her and been on his way.

    We already did this bit. He has the right to ask her to put out her cigarette - even if it is in her car - if it interferes with his ability to do his job.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Then you are wrong. There is no law that requires you to kiss an officer's ****. She can have all the bad attitude she wants and he has to as a professional take it.

    You still haven't explained what she was trying to get away with.

    There's no law that says he has to take it if you don't obey a lawful order.
    And I did explain. She was trying to get away with making political points.

    You know what's hilariously sad? She actually left a voicemail with a friend from jail saying she doesn't understand how she wound up in jail. She wound up in jail because she wouldn't shut up, she argued with a cop and failed to obey two lawful and quite reasonable orders.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    We already did this bit. He has the right to ask her to put out her cigarette - even if it is in her car - if it serves his purpose of escalating an otherwise benign situation.

    I'm telling ya, I've worked with this kind of badge heavy ****. They want and even crave confrontation.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    flytrap wrote: »
    It's amazing to me how many of you hate cops. Every time I've been pulled over, 4 or 5 times in 50 years of driving, the cop was right and I was in the wrong. Any time I've interacted with them they've been polite and helpful. Given they can be called to put their **** on the line at any time, frankly, I'm surprised at the LACK of bullying and aggression.

    Plus one. Clearly there's a belief among much of our populace that when **** goes down, it's because the cop is bad. There's never any responsibility on the other side.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    I'm telling ya, I've worked with this kind of badge heavy ****. They want and even crave confrontation.

    Does the guy have any records of prior complaints?
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    You can't complain to city hall, Steven. Come on, you really think they don't protect one another just like any other tight-knit organization?

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