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Praying for peace while waging permanent war

EdBEdB Senior MemberPosts: 3,096 Senior Member
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41960.htm

Memorial Day: Praying for Peace While Waging Permanent War?

By Bill Quigley

May 25, 2015 "Information Clearing House" - Memorial Day is, by federal law, a day of prayer for permanent peace. But is it possible to honestly pray for peace while our country is far and away number one in the world in waging war, military presence, military spending and the sale of weapons around the world?

U.S. Global War Machine

The U.S. has 1.3 million people in the military, and another 1 million serve in the military reserves. The U.S. has over 700 military bases in 63 countries across the world, deploying over 255,000 U.S. military personnel there. The Department of Defense officially manages over 555,000 buildings on 4,400 properties inside the U.S., and on over 700 properties across the globe. The U.S. has over 1,500 strategic nuclear warheads; over 13,000 military aircraft; dozens of submarines, many of which carry nuclear weapons; and 88 destroyer warships.

Global Harm

Nearly 7,000 U.S. military people died as a result of the wars waged by the U.S. since 9/11. Just as important, in Iraq over 216,000 combatants, most of them civilians, have died since the 2003 invasion. Some estimates of Iraq casualties are double that. No one even counted civilian deaths in Afghanistan for the first five years of our war there. Our drone attacks have murdered hundreds of children and civilian adults in Pakistan, and dozens more in Yemen.

Replies

  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 6,018 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41960.htm

    Memorial Day: Praying for Peace While Waging Permanent War?

    By Bill Quigley

    May 25, 2015 "Information Clearing House" - Memorial Day is, by federal law, a day of prayer for permanent peace. But is it possible to honestly pray for peace while our country is far and away number one in the world in waging war, military presence, military spending and the sale of weapons around the world?

    U.S. Global War Machine

    The U.S. has 1.3 million people in the military, and another 1 million serve in the military reserves. The U.S. has over 700 military bases in 63 countries across the world, deploying over 255,000 U.S. military personnel there. The Department of Defense officially manages over 555,000 buildings on 4,400 properties inside the U.S., and on over 700 properties across the globe. The U.S. has over 1,500 strategic nuclear warheads; over 13,000 military aircraft; dozens of submarines, many of which carry nuclear weapons; and 88 destroyer warships.

    Global Harm

    Nearly 7,000 U.S. military people died as a result of the wars waged by the U.S. since 9/11. Just as important, in Iraq over 216,000 combatants, most of them civilians, have died since the 2003 invasion. Some estimates of Iraq casualties are double that. No one even counted civilian deaths in Afghanistan for the first five years of our war there. Our drone attacks have murdered hundreds of children and civilian adults in Pakistan, and dozens more in Yemen.

    Talk about quality reporting. I'd really love to know what a civilian combatant is.
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    Ed, this is one of those damned if you do and damned if you don't instances. We are the world's policeman, at least that seems to be the general consensus. Those 63 odd countries have ASKED us to be there, through means of mutual defense pacts, etc. I wish we could keep our noses out of other peoples' problem, OTOH we are part of a world community, so, unfortunately, we can't just let them kill each other off. Frankly, with some of the yahoos out there that isn't the worst scenario. but then we'd get hit for not getting involved.

    If one or more countries are building up their military (and Russia and China both are) we have to do the same. This scenario has played out before, Germany, Italy and Japan building their war machine while the U.S. Britain and France pared theirs. And we know how well that worked out.

    While democracies (and we still are one, somewhat)rarely start wars, we still need to be prepared for them.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,096 Senior Member
    flytrap wrote: »
    Ed, this is one of those damned if you do and damned if you don't instances. We are the world's policeman, at least that seems to be the general consensus. Those 63 odd countries have ASKED us to be there, through means of mutual defense pacts, etc. I wish we could keep our noses out of other peoples' problem, OTOH we are part of a world community, so, unfortunately, we can't just let them kill each other off. Frankly, with some of the yahoos out there that isn't the worst scenario. but then we'd get hit for not getting involved.

    If one or more countries are building up their military (and Russia and China both are) we have to do the same. This scenario has played out before, Germany, Italy and Japan building their war machine while the U.S. Britain and France pared theirs. And we know how well that worked out.

    While democracies (and we still are one, somewhat)rarely start wars, we still need to be prepared for them.

    Who decreed that we are the world's policeman? The reason we are is to facilitate the corporate and financial elite exploitation of the world's economic resources, by military force if necessary. That is an immoral, illegal, and invalid reason. The crimes against humanity that we commit in the process makes us an outlaw nation and I see no justification
    for it. Nuremberg established that the worst international crime is starting aggressive illegal wars, something the U.S. has done repeatedly while hypocritically praying for peace. That needs to stop.
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    Respectfully disagree Ed, it was Al Queda that started with the terrorist attacks then sheltering behind the Taliban that started the Afghanistan war, they had him, knew they had him, and refused reasonable alternatives. Saddam Hussein started Gulf War I by invading Kuwait. Again with the WWII analogy, if Britain and France had stood up to **** when he marched illegally into the Rhineland, maybe history would have been a lot different today.

    While I agree we should not be the world's policeman, it seems we are by popular acclaim here AND abroad, after all, why should some rinky-dink country fight their own war when they can get Uncle Sucker to do the killing and dying for them?
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,096 Senior Member
    The Taliban offered to turn over Bin Laden, we ignored them because the neocons were set on starting a war in the M.E.to gain control of the oil and gas there. We could have gotten him with special forces if we wanted to. Sadaam was given the green light by us to invade Kuwait, a ruse to allow us to claim justification for attacking Iraq, defeat him and control Iraq by air and carry out economic sanctions that killed 500,000 children in Iraq which Allbright said was "justified". Then we invaded Iraq based on neocon lies that killed hundreds of thousands more innocent civilians, and on and on, a totally criminal foreign policy.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    The Taliban offered to turn over Bin Laden, we ignored them because the neocons were set on starting a war in the M.E.to gain control of the oil and gas there. We could have gotten him with special forces if we wanted to. Sadaam was given the green light by us to invade Kuwait, a ruse to allow us to claim justification for attacking Iraq, defeat him and control Iraq by air and carry out economic sanctions that killed 500,000 children in Iraq which Allbright said was "justified". Then we invaded Iraq based on neocon lies that killed hundreds of thousands more innocent civilians, and on and on, a totally criminal foreign policy.


    Wow, there's a lot of BS to unpack in that short paragraph.
  • CO NativeCO Native Senior Member Posts: 2,306 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    Start unpacking, because it's all true.

    If you truly believe that, then I have some nice ocean front property in Arizona that I make you a deal on.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Economic sanctions killed 500,000 Iraqi children? Let's start with that. What's the source for that?

    We did not "Green light" the invasion of Kuwait. April Glaspie perhaps could have been more forceful with Saddam over the issue, but it was not a ruse to invade. If it were, why did we stop? Why not remove Saddam right then? Why control Iraq by Air when we could have controlled it from the ground?

    IIRC, we told the Taliban to give us OBL, and they refused.

    Maybe you have some source material for this stuff.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,096 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Economic sanctions killed 500,000 Iraqi children? Let's start with that. What's the source for that?

    We did not "Green light" the invasion of Kuwait. April Glaspie perhaps could have been more forceful with Saddam over the issue, but it was not a ruse to invade. If it were, why did we stop? Why not remove Saddam right then? Why control Iraq by Air when we could have controlled it from the ground?

    IIRC, we told the Taliban to give us OBL, and they refused.

    Maybe you have some source material for this stuff.

    I posted some of the source material in post #8.

    Here is another source:
    http://billmoyers.com/2014/06/27/the-first-iraq-war-was-also-sold-to-the-public-based-on-a-pack-of-lies/
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,558 Senior Member
    There is no dispute about one crucially important point: Saddam Hussein consulted with the US before invading, and our ambassador chose not to draw a line in the sand, or even hint that the invasion might be grounds for the US to go to war.

    And this means absolutely **** all.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,096 Senior Member
    CO Native wrote: »
    If you truly believe that, then I have some nice ocean front property in Arizona that I make you a deal on.

    Read the source material, you might learn something.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,096 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Economic sanctions killed 500,000 Iraqi children? Let's start with that. What's the source for that?

    We did not "Green light" the invasion of Kuwait. April Glaspie perhaps could have been more forceful with Saddam over the issue, but it was not a ruse to invade. If it were, why did we stop? Why not remove Saddam right then? Why control Iraq by Air when we could have controlled it from the ground?

    IIRC, we told the Taliban to give us OBL, and they refused.

    Maybe you have some source material for this stuff.

    So Sherb, after reading the source material, what do you think?

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