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Bernie Sanders AMA on Reddit

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  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,585 Senior Member
    Hextall wrote: »
    Agreed, let's invest in making it a more viable alternative. Which is what Bernie is saying.

    I also have no problem investing a shitton of money in trying to figure out the nuclear waste problem.

    Anything to reduce our dependence on coal.
    This is what i was looking for. Everyone is so quick to attack nukes and forget that without them, you've got coal.

    Until that magical day when we can run on bunny farts and pixie dust, those are our choices.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Look at America. We don't have nukes built on fault lines or in areas prone to tsunamis. Same as France. What are they, 100% nuke power now?

    I get it. You don't like nukes. Then tell me how we get rid of them and coal and provide power to the grid.

    Two words San Onofre.

    I get it you don't like solar.

    http://theweek.com/speedreads/451299/germany-gets-50-percent-electricity-from-solar-first-time
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Two examples? Actually there's only a total of Three, plus one near miss. And there are currently nuclear power plants in 33 countries.

    Couldn't you just as easily say look At American Airlines flight 191? Air travel is unsafe. Take a car.

    Car= Coal.

    When you make an area unsafe for humans for a 1,000 years how many examples do you need?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Look at America. We don't have nukes built on fault lines or in areas prone to tsunamis. Same as France. What are they, 100% nuke power now?

    I get it. You don't like nukes. Then tell me how we get rid of them and coal and provide power to the grid.

    I am not saying get rid of them. I just see no upside to building more of them.

    http://inhabitat.com/teslas-powerwall-battery-is-a-stylish-but-expensive-way-to-ditch-the-grid/

    Imagine if we spent more on the tech than what just one small company can provide.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,585 Senior Member
    **** man, I'm not going to say it again. I love solar and wind and geothermal and wave machines and any other alternative form of energy.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Two words San Onofre.

    Great beach. The beach boys and Weezer sang about it. I spent a lot of time there.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,585 Senior Member
    I am not saying get rid of them. I just see no upside to building more of them.

    http://inhabitat.com/teslas-powerwall-battery-is-a-stylish-but-expensive-way-to-ditch-the-grid/

    Imagine if we spent more on the tech than what just one small company can provide.
    The upside is getting rid of fossil fuel plants.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Topics like this are the reason I think its good to have some diversity in presidential candidates. You can flesh out issues that otherwise would be ignored.

    "Mrs. Clinton, do you support Ethanol subsidies? How about you Mr. Bush? Which one of you loves ethanol more?"
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    **** man, I'm not going to say it again. I love solar and wind and geothermal and wave machines and any other alternative form of energy.

    Really? Because you seem to be spending a lot of time fighting against them.

    http://www.ucsusa.org/our-work/nuclear-power/cost-nuclear-power#.VVzAVEaYQVA
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Topics like this are the reason I think its good to have some diversity in presidential candidates. You can flesh out issues that otherwise would be ignored.

    "Mrs. Clinton, do you support Ethanol subsidies? How about you Mr. Bush? Which one of you loves ethanol more?"

    As long as Nebraska has voters this is not going to change.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    The upside is getting rid of fossil fuel plants.

    And so far not one of our plants has prevented the use of fossil fuels. As you said in the beginning you need fossil fuels to back them up.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,585 Senior Member
    And so far not one of our plants has prevented the use of fossil fuels. As you said in the beginning you need fossil fuels to back them up.

    No, the alternative energy plants have to have either a fossil fuel or nuke back up. Nukes don't require backing up because they can adjust at any time to supply the demand.

    Wind can't do that.

    I prefer nukes.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,585 Senior Member
    Really? Because you seem to be spending a lot of time fighting against them.

    http://www.ucsusa.org/our-work/nuclear-power/cost-nuclear-power#.VVzAVEaYQVA
    I'm done then. If that's what you've gotten from all the posts I've made then there's no point in continuing the discussion.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    Guys, what I learned from this thread:

    Apparently if you turn on a light switch and it is powered by wind energy, a windmill starts up but there's a terrible lag.
    If that same light switch is wired to a nuclear plant, unicorns **** Twix bars and all of Japan dies.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,585 Senior Member
    Here's another tidbit. Windmills have a narrow operating range. Something like they won't produce below 14 knots and have to be shut down if the wind gets over 30 knots or they will self destruct.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    And that's why they call you the Deflator.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,585 Senior Member
    Hextall wrote: »
    Guys, what I learned from this thread:

    Apparently if you turn on a light switch and it is powered by wind energy, a windmill starts up but there's a terrible lag.
    If that same light switch is wired to a nuclear plant, unicorns **** Twix bars and all of Japan dies.
    This is pretty accurate.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    As long as Nebraska has voters this is not going to change.

    I know, but it makes people cynical about the process.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Yes it is! You are not going to take a single coal or nuke plant offline by building a field full of wind mills. Not one. The tech isn't there yet. When the sun stops shining or the wind stops blowing, do we just live with the blackouts? No.

    That's the biggest hurdle I see facing alternative energy is transmission, storage, and the ability to provide peak load.

    If you refuse to even look at the information that I have provided that refutes this, then you are right, we are done.

    http://www.psr.org/nuclear-bailout/resources/nuclear-power-plant.pdf
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,585 Senior Member
    More assumptions. I've looked at every one.

    I've stated my position. I haven't heard a word on your proposal to address the issue that alternatives aren't ready yet. So what do we do about coal? You're fine with keeping coal plants?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    $9 billion is the low end estimate on one plant. How many do you think it would take to eliminate coal?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    More assumptions. I've looked at every one.

    I've stated my position. I haven't heard a word on your proposal to address the issue that alternatives aren't ready yet. So what do we do about coal? You're fine with keeping coal plants?

    I showed you a battery that has been developed by a small start up that could power a house, I have shown you that Germany currently provides 50% of their energy from the sun. So you see where I might be skeptical on your claim that you have looked at every one.

    So say we can provide all of our electricity with 50 more nuclear plants. That is a half a trillion dollars and it takes years before they can come on-line. Alternative research is more feasible especially when you look at the advances in just the past 10 years.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,585 Senior Member
    I still say replace all coal with nuke plants, sell the coal to China, and invest the money in alternatives.

    The big question is how far away from alternative sources being a major or main contributor to our power needs are we? 10 years? 50? I just think it will be a long time coming. Meanwhile, big coal keeps rolling.
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 4,372 Senior Member
    OK, I will fess up. Yucca Mountain is my baby. I spent 3 years as part of the site Characterization team with a contractor to the U.S.G.S. The complaints IMO about the safety are mostly political and cost. You put it in the ground with enough high tech containment materials, and it will stay there for well over 1,000 years (10,00 is actually the mandated congressional isolation time) at which time it will be no more radioactive than the ores it was recovered from. The problems are political. One, no one in Nevada trusts the DOE to do it right,(and I'm not sure I do either, they are rife with political appointees) and the huge casino-tourist industry sees no benefit from the risk and notoriety. Two, the real problem is transporting the waste from the reactors, where it is currently bursting the on-site storage facilities at the seams in the middle of our urban areas. The majority of states will have to deal with the convoys and train traffic carrying the canisters through their towns and cities. Can you say terrorist attacks in your burg? This is the little talked about political problem with Y.M.

    That said, the issue only touched on here is the looming climate change. If as I do, we consider reducing greenhouse gas reduction as soon as possible to be essential to civilization, you have to consider Nuclear in the mix. It needs to be taken (political chewtoy alert) out of the realm of profit-making organizations, and treated as similar to the nuclear submarine program. A completely new R&D program to identify safer and less costly designs and a more reliable non-profit oriented command structure is in order.

    BTW, the Salt Dome disposal thing is OK for low level waste, but don't we want the ability to access the waste if something goes wrong or we find a superior new way to deal with it. The history of the WIPP plant is a lesson in the ineptness of the DOE. When they started it, the state of New Mexico wanted it. After some years of duplicity on the part of the DOE, New Mexico was ready to kick the program out of the state.

    While i support full scale solar and wind development, the fact is the engineering establishment doesn't seem sold on the practicality of a really major conversion with present technology. We've already seen an abortion of a project on corn ethanol, which was no alternative at all, just a gift to ADM stock owners and a porkbarrel to farm states. And its many of the same Ecodupes who supported that stuff who say we can convert totally to solar and wind now. We have to separate the wishes from the reality.
    But the science literature is full of promising new research, so maybe. Fusion power, anyone?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    And I still say the numbers do not support you hypothesis. It would cost much more to replace all those coal plants with Nuclear, than to invest in more feasible alternatives.

    Can you name me even one state that has been able to replace their coal with Nuclear? How many plants do you think it would take to achieve your goal? Now take that and multiply it by $9, assuming no cost over runs and inflation. What figure do you arrive at? Now figure in the cost of storing the waste materials.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • DeadbaitDeadbait Member Posts: 85 Member
    Doesn't the manufacture, delivery and maintenance of wind turbines depend on fossil fuels? Also the only way that wind energy can function on the grid is to have a fast back up power source should they fail. Hmm....what could that fast back up source be?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    It doesn't depend on coal. Oh and guess what depends on fossil fuels, the building of a nuclear power plant. Probably much more actually.

    The power grid is integrated. Very few people get their power from a single source or a single location. The wind is always blowing and the sun is always shining somewhere.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 4,372 Senior Member
    Deadbait wrote: »
    Doesn't the manufacture, delivery and maintenance of wind turbines depend on fossil fuels? Also the only way that wind energy can function on the grid is to have a fast back up power source should they fail. Hmm....what could that fast back up source be?

    Building of such a huge number of solar installations and wind turbines, AND the transmission wires to carry the energy from widely distributed remote locations to consumers in cities far away will require enormous amounts of raw materials, many of them environmentally damaging to mine. This cost is often ignored. Right now, they are building wind turbines in Wyoming, but only adjacent to already existing power lines.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,585 Senior Member
    It doesn't depend on coal.

    The power grid is integrated. Very few people get their power from a single source or a single location. The wind is always blowing and the sun is always shining somewhere.

    He asked what the back up for wind and solar was. It is either coal, gas, or nuclear power. Those are instantaneous, on demand sources. You cannot have solar backing up wind. Not at the current technology and transmission.

    Face it. We are either going to be burning coal and gas, or heating water with nuclear power for decades. Pick your poison. Nuclear isn't poisoning my water supply. Gas and coal is.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    creekguy wrote: »
    Building of such a huge number of solar installations and wind turbines, AND the transmission wires to carry the energy from widely distributed remote locations to consumers in cities far away will require enormous amounts of raw materials, many of them environmentally damaging to mine. This cost is often ignored. Right now, they are building wind turbines in Wyoming, but only adjacent to already existing power lines.

    This would be the same with a nuclear facility.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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