Student debt revolt

2

Replies

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,539 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    I don't get your issue...Corinthian loans you $10,000 to go to Everest. Everest goes belly up and you don't complete your education, or you get a **** education unlike what you were promised. Morally, should you have to pay Corinthian back? Corinthian didn't provide the promised service.

    Also Corinthian chose to sell those loans. What the buyer does with those loans is their business.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,539 Senior Member
    ricinus wrote: »
    I guess I'm old fashioned that way. When you borrow money, you have an obligation to repay it.. You shouldn't be looking for ways to wiggle out of that commitment.

    Mike

    Except the borrower was not looking for a way out of that commitment. A third party bought that paper and decided to forgive those loans. Kind of like a government bailout in a manner of speaking.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Corinthian only sold a small portion of the "loans." The students refuse to pay the amount that Corinithian still holds and don't want to pay the government for the real loans it made.
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    I get what FC and Steven are saying now, but I'm not sure I agree with it..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,539 Senior Member
    Let me ask this, "When Everest went belly-up, do you think they paid 100% of their loans and obligations?"

    Part of me agrees with Sherb and part of me agrees with you. I think if the students really want out of these obligations, they should get a judgement from the court citing bad faith on Everest's part. But then again I am not a lawyer, I only watch one on tv.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Yes. Instead of trying to buy back loans, Rolling Jubilee should be raising money for lawyers. Somebody will buy that debt from Corinthian and try to collect.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,539 Senior Member
    You just said they didn't buy back those loans.

    (You don't think I actually read an article posted by Ed B. do you?)

    But if it comes a choice between buying the loans or getting a lawyer, I choose column A.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • seppalaseppala Senior Member Posts: 1,916 Senior Member
    My first thought is buyer beware. But for-profit colleges are known to make outlandish claims about the value of their education. I'm not sure that absolves the students, though it's very difficult for most people to understand what they're getting into.

    That's why accreditation is so important. Some Republican lawmakers feel that the Higher Learning Commission is just out to protect universities, to keep a monopoly on the market. But they are in place to keep things like this from happening.

    For what it's worth, Scott Walker wants to ease regulations on for-profit colleges.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,926 Senior Member
    You just said they didn't buy back those loans.

    (You don't think I actually read an article posted by Ed B. do you?)

    But if it comes a choice between buying the loans or getting a lawyer, I choose column A.

    So that's why you don't know what you're talking about when you post in my threads, I understand now. :)
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    I was lucky enough to not have college loans... but do these students have to pay (i.e. take out enough loans) to pay for their complete education?

    How come they don't pay as they go? They are obligated to pay for the services already rendered... but not for what they didn't get. I assume they didn't give all that money up front, did they?

    Ed, is your degree in bofa?
  • seppalaseppala Senior Member Posts: 1,916 Senior Member
    Hextall wrote: »
    I was lucky enough to not have college loans... but do these students have to pay (i.e. take out enough loans) to pay for their complete education?

    How come they don't pay as they go? They are obligated to pay for the services already rendered... but not for what they didn't get. I assume they didn't give all that money up front, did they?

    Ed, is your degree in bofa?

    Loans are issued on a semester basis. The government requires a Satisfactory Academic Progress check before issuing new loans.

    So no, not all up front.
  • You just said they didn't buy back those loans.

    (You don't think I actually read an article posted by Ed B. do you?)

    But if it comes a choice between buying the loans or getting a lawyer, I choose column A.

    The former students didn't buy back the loans. An organization called Rolling Jubilee bought the loans from Corinthian and then forgave the loans.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    seppala wrote: »
    Loans are issued on a semester basis.

    So the question is whether these students should have to pay back the loans for partially completed semesters.

    Any semester's they completed, they got the services they paid for. If I get someone to build me a fatbike, but they only put together the frame and fork... I still owe for the frame and fork. The uninstalled streamers and basket are not my obligation.
  • seppalaseppala Senior Member Posts: 1,916 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    You're going to need to explain to me why I am morally obligated to pay Sherb in my example.

    Maybe this is what you're not getting. Sherb didn't give me money. Corinthian didn't give those students money.

    Those students were promised a decent education. Corinthian allowed these students to pay for this over time for servicecs rendered. Services weren't rendered as promised. Why should the students pay Corinthian for services that weren't rendered by Corinthian?

    Your example is the extreme, but it highlights a dangerous issue. What if Sherb showed up sober and sharply dressed, but you feel he could have done just a bit more to help you out. Do you get your money back then? What's your definition of good counsel? Is it contingent on winning? Or is it that he does his best? If so, who determines that?

    That's why the "good education" part is so problematic. I went to community college. Was my education good compared to your first two years at Berkeley? If not, then I want my money back.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,539 Senior Member
    seppala wrote: »
    My first thought is buyer beware. But for-profit colleges are known to make outlandish claims about the value of their education. I'm not sure that absolves the students, though it's very difficult for most people to understand what they're getting into.

    That's why accreditation is so important. Some Republican lawmakers feel that the Higher Learning Commission is just out to protect universities, to keep a monopoly on the market. But they are in place to keep things like this from happening.

    For what it's worth, Scott Walker wants to ease regulations on for-profit colleges.

    And those Republicans are receiving tons of money from University of Phoenix a college with a 17% graduate rate.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,539 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    The former students didn't buy back the loans. An organization called Rolling Jubilee bought the loans from Corinthian and then forgave the loans.

    I get that. But then you said this.
    Corinthian only sold a small portion of the "loans." The students refuse to pay the amount that Corinithian still holds and don't want to pay the government for the real loans it made.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,539 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    So that's why you don't know what you're talking about when you post in my threads, I understand now. :)

    So why is it you don't know what you are talking about on the same threads?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • The former students didn't buy back the loans. An organization called Rolling Jubilee bought the loans from Corinthian and then forgave the loans.


    Corinthian only sold a small portion of the "loans." The students refuse to pay the amount that Corinithian still holds and don't want to pay the government for the real loans it made.


    They're not mutually exclusive. Read the article
  • seppala wrote: »
    Your example is the extreme, but it highlights a dangerous issue. What if Sherb showed up sober and sharply dressed, but you feel he could have done just a bit more to help you out. Do you get your money back then? What's your definition of good counsel? Is it contingent on winning? Or is it that he does his best? If so, who determines that?

    Sherb and I go on Judge Judy and haggle it out.
    seppala wrote: »
    That's why the "good education" part is so problematic. I went to community college. Was my education good compared to your first two years at Berkeley? If not, then I want my money back.
    This is a false comparison. The question is: What were you promised for your money? Nobody promised me anything, and I doubt you were promised anything. But these for profits make all kinds of promises.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,539 Senior Member
    Well at least it is the New Yorker and not americaisasuckycountry or technocracyisthegreatestthingever.com
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Steven wrote: »

    This is a false comparison. The question is: What were you promised for your money? Nobody promised me anything, and I doubt you were promised anything. But these for profits make all kinds of promises.

    I will allow that this is probably more prevalent than we realize. Hence the importance of accreditation. It seems to me that the remedy is to sue the school, rather than default on a loan. The two contractual obligations are different.
  • sherb wrote: »
    I will allow that this is probably more prevalent than we realize. Hence the importance of accreditation. It seems to me that the remedy is to sue the school, rather than default on a loan. The two contractual obligations are different.

    So you sue the school for your money back which pays for the loan that you pay back. The only difference I see is that you've found a judge to bless it.
  • seppalaseppala Senior Member Posts: 1,916 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    This is a false comparison. The question is: What were you promised for your money? Nobody promised me anything, and I doubt you were promised anything.

    They promised me a ticket out of central Illinois. And it worked! Look where I am today!!!

    [/looks at map]

    ****.
  • Stop whining. You spent a weekend here last year.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,539 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    I will allow that this is probably more prevalent than we realize. Hence the importance of accreditation. It seems to me that the remedy is to sue the school, rather than default on a loan. The two contractual obligations are different.

    Isn't that what I said? Then I got a sarcastic response.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • From me? No.
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,905 Senior Member
    In December, a group of Democrats in the Senate, led by Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, wrote to the Education Secretary, Arne Duncan, calling on the Department of Education to “immediately discharge” the federal loans of at least some students who attended Corinthian. This wasn’t a toothless press stunt. The department, the senators noted, has the power to cancel federal loans for students who attended institutions that violated their rights. In fact, they pointed out, the department’s federal-loan agreements with students go as far as to spell this out, if in fine print: “In some cases, you may assert, as a defense against collection of your loan, that the school did something wrong or failed to do something that it should have done.

    In total, its obvious that Corinthians did not operate in good faith towards its students. Is that enough to discharge the loans? I certainly have no sympathy for them.
  • Paranoia is setting in. Very sad.
  • creekguy wrote: »
    In December, a group of Democrats in the Senate, led by Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, wrote to the Education Secretary, Arne Duncan, calling on the Department of Education to “immediately discharge” the federal loans of at least some students who attended Corinthian. This wasn’t a toothless press stunt. The department, the senators noted, has the power to cancel federal loans for students who attended institutions that violated their rights. In fact, they pointed out, the department’s federal-loan agreements with students go as far as to spell this out, if in fine print: “In some cases, you may assert, as a defense against collection of your loan, that the school did something wrong or failed to do something that it should have done.

    Like stay open?

    Now here's the conundrum...I have no problem with the students telling the shareholders of Corinthian "BOFA DEEZ NUTS" and smacking them on the chin. I think there's a bigger moral issue with telling the taxpayers to go suck it.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    This is why I only go to schools with Division I hockey programs.

    484500607.jpg

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