Here's Your Chance

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Replies

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,418 Senior Member
    If it has nothing to do with income, then stop using the term as it is meaningless. Basically you are saying the term means exactly what you want it to mean and is based solely on your prejudices.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    I dissent.

    I don't think its about money at all. I think Walmart employees and Hedge funders in Newport Beach both think of themselves as middle class. Its really more about values in my opinion. Politicians know this, which is why every word out of their mouths is a paean to their virtues.

    I would agree that the vast majority of us would identify ourselves as middle class.

    What specific values would you say define the middle class?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,418 Senior Member
    BTW just because you define yourself as middle class does not make it so.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • jbilly wrote: »
    I would agree that the vast majority of us would identify ourselves as middle class.

    What specific values would you say define the middle class?

    a culture that values work and initiative, focuses on the importance of obeying the law, owns a home (or rents with an eye towards owning), prefers moderation in religion and/or politics, and assigns sobriety and industry as higher values than being quarrelsome or idle.

    Aside: ISIS has appeal, specifically because it is NOT this. The Bourgeois in any society cultivate a certain mindset, and that mindset is unappealing to the young and the radical.
  • BTW just because you define yourself as middle class does not make it so.

    Actually it does. Middle class is a philosophical and/or political term. I would not call it a sociological term, because sociology as a discipline only exists within bourgeois societies.
  • And I certainly would not assign the term to the dismal science.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,418 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Actually it does. Middle class is a philosophical and/or political term. I would not call it a sociological term, because sociology as a discipline only exists within bourgeois societies.

    It is an economic term referring to economic class. By your definition a member of the top 1% could call themselves middle class.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • And they do. With some frequency.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,246 Senior Member
    IMO, anyone above the federal poverty guidelines and not receiving any government assistance can/could be called middle and upper class...said persons are winning at the game of life.
  • seppalaseppala Senior Member Posts: 1,916 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    And I certainly would not assign the term to the dismal science.

    Look at the big brain on this guy! You didn't go to a state school, did you?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,418 Senior Member
    So good news everybody, Donald Trump is middle class. Just like you and I, when do we get to **** on golden toilets?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • seppala wrote: »
    Look at the big brain on this guy! You didn't go to a state school, did you?

    Well...it was accredited.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,246 Senior Member
    Compared to Bill Gates, Trump is middle class. :D

    The definition of middle class is a moving target. :what:
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,418 Senior Member
    Wow you're right. He didn't even make the top 100. I almost feel sorry for him
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    when do we get to **** on golden toilets?

    You gotta pee on it first.

    BOOYAH!
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    Compared to Bill Gates, Trump is middle class. :D

    The definition of middle class is a moving target. :what:

    I think I would call him low or no class..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,048 Senior Member
    Comic - You've done the research, do you have a link to a chart showing actual incomes rather than relative wealth?
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,418 Senior Member
    I would think that wealth would be more relevant than income for this discussion.

    If I inherited $14 million and I only made $60k on investments am I then middle class?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    If I inherited $14 million and I only made $60k on investments am I then middle class?

    No, you'd be a $hitty investor
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,048 Senior Member
    I would think that wealth would be more relevant than income for this discussion.

    If I inherited $14 million and I only made $60k on investments am I then middle class?

    "Wealth" can be even more difficult to measure than "income". My income is almost all pensions, my wife took a lump sum from her employer and put it into her 401K and IRA. Her net worth is several times mine, but for as long as I live I will receive a pension that increases with Social Security each year, and if my wife outlives me she will get 50% each month until she dies or remarries.

    In the meantime she draws less than I do each month to ensure that her principal does not run out.

    Which of us has more "wealth"?
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    "Wealth" can be even more difficult to measure than "income". My income is almost all pensions, my wife took a lump sum from her employer and put it into her 401K and IRA. Her net worth is several times mine, but for as long as I live I will receive a pension that increases with Social Security each year, and if my wife outlives me she will get 50% each month until she dies or remarries.

    In the meantime she draws less than I do each month to ensure that her principal does not run out.

    Which of us has more "wealth"?

    Almost identical here with her money being hers and my pension "ours".. Fortunately I'm worth more alive..;)

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,418 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    No, you'd be a $hitty investor

    I said I inherited it didn't I? I was smart enough to be born into the right family. Say even if it were $150k, where would I lie in your estimation?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,418 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    "Wealth" can be even more difficult to measure than "income". My income is almost all pensions, my wife took a lump sum from her employer and put it into her 401K and IRA. Her net worth is several times mine, but for as long as I live I will receive a pension that increases with Social Security each year, and if my wife outlives me she will get 50% each month until she dies or remarries.

    In the meantime she draws less than I do each month to ensure that her principal does not run out.

    Which of us has more "wealth"?

    It depends. Do you like bacon?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    I said I inherited it didn't I? I was smart enough to be born into the right family. Say even if it were $150k, where would I lie in your estimation?

    Chris,
    Not sure what you are asking, but guessing you are asking if 150k per year is middle class? I'd say it depends where you live. In some areas you'd be upper class, some lower upper class and some (NY, Silicon Valley, maybe LA, etc) you'd be middle class, but on the high end.

    I'd say middle class could be anywhere from about 50k-150 or maybe 175 depending on location
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,418 Senior Member
    I would qualify it as such although I think income wise it puts you in the top 20%.

    My point is that if you do nothing but sit on $14 million and earn nothing from it, you still would not be in the lower or middle classes.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    I would qualify it as such although I think income wise it puts you in the top 20%.

    My point is that if you do nothing but sit on $14 million and earn nothing from it, you still would not be in the lower or middle classes.

    I wont disagree with that at all. If you've got 14 million in the bank your annual income doesn't mean squat. You are certainly upper class.
  • George K wrote: »

    Which of us has more "wealth"?

    Well, since you're married. . .she does, of course. :)
  • I would think that wealth would be more relevant than income for this discussion.

    If I inherited $14 million and I only made $60k on investments am I then middle class?

    No, you're a fly fishing guide. With some ski-instructor duties on the side.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,048 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Well, since you're married. . .she does, of course. :)

    My pearl of wisdom for today, given to you as a gratis token of my esteem.

    It's rarely possible in a first marriage (and was not for either of us in our first marriages), but for folks like us who married at age 60, both widowed and with our children grown and well established on their own, the secret to never allowing money to cause stress in your home life is to have three pots of money. Those would be mine, ours and hers. As long as we contribute to the "ours" pot in accordance with its needs she can shop at Nordstrom's to her heart's delight and I can buy as much camera and fishing gear as I want and can afford.

    It is a very nice place to be in.

    BTW - You still are not incorrect, sir, not in the least.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.

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