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SCOTUS Decision on Hobby Lobby today.

2

Replies

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    I find the "well, we fought a war" excuse to be a load of B.S.
    When did we assume that we'd never fight another war? If that assumption was made or not prepared for, that's an indictment of a government run system.

    Actually it is more an indictment of the Republican party that has no problem finding funding for wars but cannot find it in their hearts to fund the warriors.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/27/us-usa-veterans-congress-idUSBREA1Q26O20140227
    Supporters said the measure would have brought the most significant changes in decades to U.S. veterans' programs. For example, it called for 27 new medical facilities to help a healthcare system that is strained by veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 6,023 Senior Member
    Hextall wrote: »
    Except Hobby Lobby said they have no problem covering vasectomies. So, what's up with that?

    I can tell you, they lost a customer in me today!

    Oh come on every single dude who has ever set foot in Hobby Lobby or Michael's already doesn't have any balls.*




    *Note. I have never been in HL, but have gone to Michael's; and yes my wife had me neutered after our second was born.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 11,690 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    Oh come on every single dude who has ever set foot in Hobby Lobby or Michael's already doesn't have any balls.*




    *Note. I have never been in HL, but have gone to Michael's; and yes my wife had me neutered after our second was born.

    At Michaels, fly tying supplies such as beads are about 80% less than in fly shops, and it is the best place anywhere near me to buy sable brushes for rod building.

    p.s. Many of us have been snipped, you're the first to admit to neutering. :)
    The GOP big tent now is the size of a pup tent, its floor splattered with guano.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    At my Michaels all the beads are glass or plastic. But they do have things you can use that are tons cheaper. Also sometimes you gotta replace the innards of a clock.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 6,023 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    Many of us have been snipped, you're the first to admit to neutering. :)

    If the bag of frozen peas fits, wear it!

    If I have been good I can borrow them from her purse once in a while. :p
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    What do you propose to replace it?

    A 100% individual market. The advantage of ESI is that everyone is covered. With the advent of the public exchanges, ESI is no longer necessary.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member

    This private for profit system has adapted so well that it now cost one hundred times as much as it did just 20 years ago.

    I like hyperbole as much as the next guy, but there should be a touch of realism. Your math would equal an annualized inflation rate of 26%.

    Even if the number is 10%, this still doesn't account for improvement in quality and technology over that time period. The somewhat for-profit system we have here has resulted in a health care system that provides the best care in the world with the highest level of responsiveness.

    Now, I have no doubt that the federal government, as the sole buyer of health care under a single payer system, could hold medical inflation down, but at what cost? Restricting pay for doctors and other health care professionals means less doctors and nurses - isn't this the problem with the VA?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Actually it is more an indictment of the Republican party that has no problem finding funding for wars but cannot find it in their hearts to fund the warriors.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/27/us-usa-veterans-congress-idUSBREA1Q26O20140227

    For the sake of argument, I'll accept that the current problem is caused by the Republican Party. But so what?
    Do you think there will never be a Republican Party? Do you think a Congress and Administration totally controlled by Democrats forever will never have competiting interests that could draw funds away from the VA? Do you think that the US will never have to fight a war again if only the Democrats were in power forever? Do you think that resources are not limited and the 47% (or whatever it is) have a bottomless wallet that could fund everything Democrats might want to do?

    The idea that if we only elected a Democratic President, 100 Democratic Senators, and 435 Democratic Congressmen, we could efficiently allocate resources across an economy as large and dynamic as ours is actually much more ludicrous than Ed's belief that a board of engineers could do the same.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,099 Senior Member
    Now wait a minute, my belief is not ludicrous but I agree that politicians could not efficiently allocate resources or do anything else, republican or democrats or any other political party. Science is the only efficient method of distributing physical resources to people.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    I need a copy of that algo you run.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,285 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    At Michaels, fly tying supplies such as beads are about 80% less than in fly shops, and it is the best place anywhere near me to buy sable brushes for rod building.

    p.s. Many of us have been snipped, you're the first to admit to neutering. :)


    +1. I go there for fly tying supplies. Plus when I ask my wife to go along, I get more kitchen passes to go fishing. :D

    Joe...also part of the Snip club.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,285 Senior Member
    Actually it is more an indictment of the Republican party that has no problem finding funding for wars but cannot find it in their hearts to fund the warriors.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/27/us-usa-veterans-congress-idUSBREA1Q26O20140227

    No money in the budget because the democrats want to spend it on aid for illegal immigrants instead.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 11,690 Senior Member
    At my Michaels all the beads are glass or plastic. But they do have things you can use that are tons cheaper. Also sometimes you gotta replace the innards of a clock.

    It's been a while, but I have bought brass and chrome beads there in the past. Sewing stores are good for some materials and tings like a tying thread spool rack - $15-20 in a fly shop, $5.99 at the fabric store.

    Ditto about the clock movement, also replacement hands.
    The GOP big tent now is the size of a pup tent, its floor splattered with guano.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 6,023 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    Joe...also part of the Snip club.

    And the theory continues to hold true!
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    Now wait a minute, my belief is not ludicrous but I agree that politicians could not efficiently allocate resources or do anything else, republican or democrats or any other political party. Science is the only efficient method of distributing physical resources to people.

    We have this science. Its called Economics.

    What type of science did you have in mind?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    No money in the budget because the democrats want to spend it on aid for illegal immigrants instead.

    Funny they can spend a trillion dollars on a war, but not one penny on those that fought it.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    I like hyperbole as much as the next guy, but there should be a touch of realism. Your math would equal an annualized inflation rate of 26%.

    Even if the number is 10%, this still doesn't account for improvement in quality and technology over that time period. The somewhat for-profit system we have here has resulted in a health care system that provides the best care in the world with the highest level of responsiveness.

    Unless your poor, then you die.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Now, I have no doubt that the federal government, as the sole buyer of health care under a single payer system, could hold medical inflation down, but at what cost? Restricting pay for doctors and other health care professionals means less doctors and nurses - isn't this the problem with the VA?

    The only pay that would be restricted would be the insurance company executives that seem to always find billions of dollars of profit in the system for themselves.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    What strikes me about this case is what I've always said: liberals should argue FOR judicial restraint rather than activism. Despite the fact that during the court's most activist period (1950's-1970's) the court tended to advance liberal pet issues was no guarantee that an activist court would always rule for liberals. It was always the case that judicial activism could be employed by the other side just as easily, as it had in earlier periods of American history. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

    There's good news for libs though. Religious conservatives seeking the protection of the courts illuminates the reality that they no longer command a majority in America. That's who needs federal courts. Majorities have legislatures.

    As always, someone says it better than me.

    http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/06/30/the-courts-and-the-changing-culture-war/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=1&
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Unless your poor, then you die.

    Meanwhile, there's been no change in emergency room usage. Change!
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    The only pay that would be restricted would be the insurance company executives that seem to always find billions of dollars of profit in the system for themselves.

    More hyperbole. But anyway, they'll be out of jobs under single payer, but everybody will be so much better off, you can help support them through your income taxes.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    They can take their millions and do something meaningful with their lives.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Meanwhile, there's been no change in emergency room usage. Change!

    Of course not, you have millions still left to die by Republican governors.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Nope. It's nationwide.

    "Nationally, nearly half of ER doctors responding to a recent poll by the American College of Emergency Physicians said they've seen more visits since Jan. 1, and nearly nine in 10 expect those visits to rise in the next three years."

    Another bill of goods sold by the Administration. Hope!
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Did you really think this was going to change over night? That in one month everyone was going to take the time to see a doctor and be magically cured? You're smarter than that. It will probably take years before that many people are going to be in proactive treatment programs that would prevent emergency room visits.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    I'm the guy who never thought anything would change at all.

    Forward!
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    I think you are the guy who is grasping at straws when each of your predictions of disaster have fallen by the wayside.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Hahahahahahahahahaha.
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,968 Senior Member
    so HL wanted to op out of "contraception," but not vasectomies.... I just love it. Yes I realize vasectomies were not part of the suit, but why not? Vasectomies are not a form of birth control? The right loves women, all they have to do is cross their legs. JWs will want to opt out blood transfusion and this court will support it when it comes before them (or a lower court)..... waiting for the day when the racist store owner that says the old testament says blacks are inferior, so "my" deeply held religious beliefs dictate that I exclude such individuals from the premises. Of course the last is absurd but only to a degree. It would have more of a chance if it includes some type of sexual differentiation. I am glad that there is no voter discrimination.

    I've read all the points of law, and understand most of them, but still this is absurd (I agree with the minority opinion), and the can of worms opened will most likely not be small, I wonder what I can opt out of..........just about anything is possible, all you need is some god to back you up. Well a "christian" god anyway.


    It's a good thing that Scalia and Thomas (and a couple others) aren't "activists."

    :rolleyes: :D


    This is all so funny in a strange way.....we have become a really sad society
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.

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