If McDonald's Employees Should Get $15 an hour...

24

Replies

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    Or they look for job that pays more...

    Yes they could, if there were one available.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    Yes. I have had to make a trips to wally world twice within an 8 hour time frame because I forgot something...Same person still standing there watching 6-8 hours later in the day.

    Were you there doing the entire 8 hour shift?

    When you consider the amount of theft they prevent, it would probably still be cost effective to pay someone to stand there. Their productivity, when you consider the number of customers they can process vs the cashier, also makes them worth it.

    You guys act like this is some kind of king's ransom for cripes sake. But yet you are willing to make every excuse in the world for some guy sitting on his **** trading stocks on his computer to make millions and pay less of a percentage of their taxes than someone that is actually a productive member of society. Why should capital be valued more than labor?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Magic Johnson once took the league minimum so they could hire better players and give them a better chance at a championship.

    [/scratches head]
    I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.

    Be that as it may, I don't know what Magic's rookie contract looked like, but he signed a contract in 1981 for $1 million per year for 25 year. As silly as this looks now, it was considered outrageous back in the day. League minimum was $65,000.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    I think bringing professional athletes or actors into this discussion is a ludicrous waste of time. I am just saying that Magic is a better person than Michael Jordan.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,181 Senior Member
    What I don't get is, why you would begrudge a McDonald's employee being paid $15 per hour?

    I am not begrudging them at all. Hell who doesn't want to get paid more than they currently do? I know I'd like more cash.

    What I am trying to get at is that if you pay the McD's employee 2x what he/she makes now by doubling the minimum wage isn't everyone else going to expect a raise too? Is there going to be ripple effect?

    Going back to my example at DCRU. So lets say that the janitor currently makes $8 an hour and lets say everyone up the chain makes 2x the guy below him, so the janitor is 8, the tech is 16, the jr engineer is 32, the sr engineer is 64 and so on all the way up to the ceo making $512 an hour (obviously the 2x formal is not correct it is just hypothetical)

    So now the janitor gets a raise and now makes $16 an hour. The technicians is going to say ****, my job is a lot harder than the janitors I should get a raise too. So the corporation gives in and raises his salary to 32 an hour. Now the new engineer just out of college goes **** I just went to school and got a degree to make as much as the technician...that's total bull$hit, I should be making more than that. If you don't pay me more than that I will go work for our competitor Defense Contractors Anonymous. So the corporation gives in and so on and so forth...

    So now everyone makes 2x what they did last week and everything is fine right?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    I think bringing professional athletes or actors into this discussion is a ludicrous waste of time. I am just saying that Magic is a better person than Michael Jordan.

    Are you Cookie or Juanita?

    Professional athletes? They add no "value." You can't eat their product, live under their product, wash with their product, dress with their product...The burger flipper or cash register guy is much more "valuable." Why is it that LeBron gets so much?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    No at some point you get to a position where paying them more doesn't make sense. Also the other jobs still have the advantage of providing added career growth and earning potential. If premise were the case then all salaries would go up at the same rate now and they don't.

    But yes there is a part of this that is hoped to increase the salaries of all middle class workers. Why would that be a bad thing?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Are you Cookie or Juanita?

    Professional athletes? They add no "value." You can't eat their product, live under their product, wash with their product, dress with their product...The burger flipper or cash register guy is much more "valuable." Why is it that LeBron gets so much?

    They do add value to their employers do they not? The generate revenue that supports hundreds of small business and employees of that franchise do they not? They are not sitting on their **** gambling all day. They contribute far more to society than some day trader.

    But athletes and entertainers are the exception to the rule so using them to make a point is just stupid.

    BTW do you want to compare Chris Pauls' salary to Donald Sterling?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,990 Senior Member
    Were you there doing the entire 8 hour shift?

    Of course not. One can only assume they were standing their 8 hours. Unless by chance they switch with people, but I don't know if that is the case.
    When you consider the amount of theft they prevent, it would probably still be cost effective to pay someone to stand there. Their productivity, when you consider the number of customers they can process vs the cashier, also makes them worth it.

    But is it worth $15/hour when a freshly graduated college student with an associates degree makes that much?

    Here is what probably will happen at McD's if minimum wage goes up...

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865592089/Robots-vs-minimum-wage-As-pressure-grows-on-McDonalds-Applebys-does-an-end-run.html

    If minimum wages bumps up, then so should the salary for those in the skilled workforce.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    Of course not. One can only assume they were standing their 8 hours. Unless by chance they switch with people, but I don't know if that is the case.



    But is it worth $15/hour when a freshly graduated college student with an associates degree makes that much?

    Here is what probably will happen at McD's if minimum wage goes up...

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865592089/Robots-vs-minimum-wage-As-pressure-grows-on-McDonalds-Applebys-does-an-end-run.html

    If minimum wages bumps up, then so should the salary for those in the skilled workforce.

    How long is that freshly graduated college student going to make that much? Again why shouldn't he make more also. You are paying executives 247x more than that. Are they 247x smarter, do they work 247x harder? Does the CEO of your company work 200x as hard as you? Do they add 200x more value to the corporation than you do? Please, why is it that the bottom line only has to be concerned with those at the bottom?

    The robots are coming whether we raise the wage or not. What the hell do you think that self-check out line is?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    They do add value to their employers do they not? The generate revenue that supports hundreds of small business and employees of that franchise do they not? They are not sitting on their **** gambling all day. They contribute far more to society than some day trader.

    But athletes and entertainers are the exception to the rule so using them to make a point is just stupid.

    BTW do you want to compare Chris Pauls' salary to Donald Sterling?

    1) Comparing anybody to a day trader or guy on the CBOE floor is a losing proposition. They only eat what they most definitely kill. If I make a $1,000 on a trade, then I did that, nobody else contributed. Similarly, if I lose a $1,000 on a trade, I eat it, nobody else.

    2) Can CEO's not add value to their owners? If a CEO of a $5 billion market cap company makes a decision - launch a new product, enter a new geograply, jettison a division, whatever - that adds 10% of value to his company's stock price, he's added significant value, much more than the $10 million or $15 million he's going to take home.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,990 Senior Member
    How long is that freshly graduated college student going to make that much? Again why shouldn't he make more also. You are paying executives 247x more than that. Are they 247x smarter, do they work 247x harder? Does the CEO of your company work 200x as hard as you? Do they add 200x more value to the corporation than you do? Please, why is it that the bottom line only has to be concerned with those at the bottom?

    The robots are coming whether we raise the wage or not. What the hell do you think that self-check out line is?

    The thing is...I'm not caught up in nor do I care what CEO's make. It doesn't bother me, I never think about it.

    Also don't ignore the fact that with tax breaks, a typical minimum wage worker is making more than minimum wage.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2013/07/23/mcdonalds-minimum-wage-budget-ignores-tax-credits-food-stamps-and-reality/
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    You don't care what your boss makes, but you are upset about what some guy flipping burgers wants to make?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    1) Comparing anybody to a day trader or guy on the CBOE floor is a losing proposition. They only eat what they most definitely kill. If I make a $1,000 on a trade, then I did that, nobody else contributed. Similarly, if I lose a $1,000 on a trade, I eat it, nobody else.

    2) Can CEO's not add value to their owners? If a CEO of a $5 billion market cap company makes a decision - launch a new product, enter a new geograply, jettison a division, whatever - that adds 10% of value to his company's stock price, he's added significant value, much more than the $10 million or $15 million he's going to take home.

    1) My comment is why do we value capital over labor.

    2) I have never once said that a CEO does not add value to a company but the value we give to his contribution is inflated.

    3) So when that CEO actually decreases the value of the company, he should give them $20 million?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    1) My comment is why do we value capital over labor.

    2) I have never once said that a CEO adds value to a company but the value we give to his contribution is inflated.

    3) So when that CEO actually decreases the value of the company, he should give them $20 million?

    1) Why are diamonds more expensive than water? By the way, these days, the return on capital is minimal - you seen what Treasuries are yielding?
    2) How do you know? I'll admit that there is some truth that we can see how LeBron plays. But as Buffett says, some of the best decisions a CEO makes is saying no, and nobody ever sees those.
    3) The CEO gets fired, players get cut.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,181 Senior Member
    Lets get back to McDs.

    According to what I could find on line they employee 440k in the US.
    http://www.macroaxis.com/invest/ratio/MCD--Number_of_Employees

    Lets say of that 440k 65% of those employees make minimum wage (my estimate is probably on the low side)...so 286000 folks making minimum wage

    Now let say of those 286k (remember they are full time and part time employees) they average 24 hours a week (60% of a full week).

    So at minimum wage of $7.50 an hour those 286k employees get paid a total of 2.677 billon per year.

    Now we want that doubled. So were does the new 2.677 billion come from?

    We can't take that all from the CEOs salary.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    How many franchises are there? How much does that come to per franchise? What percentage of revenue per franchise are we talking. I saw an analysis that suggested they would have to raise the big mac by about 50 cents. That would be if the franchise owner did not take a cut in salary.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 7,946 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    3) The CEO gets fired, players get cut.
    Don't some CEOs have golden parachutes that cover being fired? That's part of the pay package that comes at the end of the career with a particular job. So while he gets fired for decreasing value, isn't he further decreasing value for the company by taking pay for a dismal other than a take over or merger?
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    1) Why are diamonds more expensive than water? By the way, these days, the return on capital is minimal - you seen what Treasuries are yielding?

    What is taxed at a higher percentage, treasuries or wages?

    BTW the CEO makes nothing if his employees do not do their jobs properly. You value that contribution at 20,000% of the guy under him. Hard to say that is not overvalued.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 7,946 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    We can't take that all from the CEOs salary.
    Of course not, but what can be taken from the CEO while not under valuing the CEO is a step towards helping others lower down the rung. A small step, but still a move in the right direction.
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,181 Senior Member
    How many franchises are there? How much does that come to per franchise? What percentage of revenue per franchise are we talking. I saw an analysis that suggested they would have to raise the big mac by about 50 cents. That would be if the franchise owner did not take a cut in salary.

    Try goggling it.
    But here is the number of Big Macs sold
    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bella/2013/06/fast-food-every-second-video-america-most-popular-businesses.php
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_Big_Mac's_are_sold_per_year?#slide=1

    I'll go with the higher number of 550 million per year

    So that means that each Big Mac would have to go up by $4.87 to generate the 2.677 billion
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    FishTX wrote: »
    Don't some CEOs have golden parachutes that cover being fired? That's part of the pay package that comes at the end of the career with a particular job. So while he gets fired for decreasing value, isn't he further decreasing value for the company by taking pay for a dismal other than a take over or merger?

    What's the difference between this and the Bulls having to pay Carlos Boozer even though he sucks?
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,990 Senior Member
    You don't care what your boss makes, but you are upset about what some guy flipping burgers wants to make?

    Never said I was upset did I?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    I think the difference is between the CEO and the Assistant Manager who is simply out on his ****. You are paying the CEO for value you admitted by firing them, they did not add.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    Never said I was upset did I?

    Actually yes this whole thread is about your displeasure.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    What is taxed at a higher percentage, treasuries or wages?

    BTW the CEO makes nothing if his employees do not do their jobs properly. You value that contribution and 20,000% of the guy under him. Hard to say that is not overvalued.

    Both wages and interest on Treasuries are ordinary income. Nice try on that.
    Sure, the CEO makes nothing if his employees don't do their jobs properly. And he gets fired for not doing a good job.

    Why are diamonds more expensive than water?
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,181 Senior Member
    Excellent. I am 100% in support of increasing the minimum wage to $15 per hour as long as we get in writing that all public assistance goes away forever. No more food stamps, welfare etc.

    Done deal!
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    I think the difference is between the CEO and the Assistant Manager who is simply out on his ****. You are paying the CEO for value you admitted by firing them, they did not add.

    No, Carlos Boozer is the right example. He's supposedly an elite athlete that would put the Bulls over the top. On that basis, the Bulls agreed to pay him no matter what. Mr. Smith is supposedly an elite businessman. On that basis, you agreed to pay him no matter what.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Why are diamonds more expensive than water?

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction.

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Fly Fisherman stories delivered right to your inbox.