If McDonald's Employees Should Get $15 an hour...

jbillyjbilly Senior MemberPosts: 5,304 Senior Member
How much should everyone else get?

Should someone with a college degree automatically get 3x that? A masters degree 4x? A PhD 5x?

If $15 per hour is what you should get for not having any qualifications what are qualifications worth?

If $15 an hour were to be mandated shouldn't everyone else's wages go up too? Shouldn't the guy/gal making $14 an hour now certainly get more than a dollar raise?
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Replies

  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,304 Senior Member
    Would a Mod be so kind as to change that from I McDonald's.... to IF....
    Thanks
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    I'm going to go ahead and ask that the thread title remain as it is so that Jbilly can submit this thread as his application to work at McDonalds.

    Thanks.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,304 Senior Member
    Hextall wrote: »
    I'm going to go ahead and ask that the thread title remain as it is so that Jbilly can submit this thread as his application to work at McDonalds.

    Thanks.

    I already flipped burgers there as a young lad during the summer of my sophomore year of high school. Luckily typing was not a skill I needed or for that matter have...maybe I need a demotion to $14.63 per hour.
  • Scott ButnerScott Butner Senior Member Posts: 3,918 Senior Member
    let's start it from the other end: if a CEO is worth $20,000,000/year -- or $5,0000/hr (assuming, generously, that they are putting in 80 hour work weeks every week) --- how much should every other employee get? is their store manager really 1/500 as qualified? do they work 1/500 as hard?
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,304 Senior Member
    let's start it from the other end: if a CEO is worth $20,000,000/year -- or $5,0000/hr (assuming, generously, that they are putting in 80 hour work weeks every week) --- how much should every other employee get? is their store manager really 1/500 as qualified? do they work 1/500 as hard?

    Hey start your own thread then. ;)

    Ok, so is working "hard" the qualifier? What makes hard work? Is it hard because you are responsible for a corporation? Or is it hard because you are busting your ****? I guess my "hardest" job ever was working construction digging ditches. I physically worked my butt off. The labor was hard, but anyone could have done it, it wasn't hard mentally. There was nothing special about it.

    Not everyone can run a multi-million dollar corporation, so I would say yes, that is a hell of a lot "harder" to be the CEO of McDs than a grunt flipping the burgers. I would agree that the CEO of McD's is certainly more valuable to the corporation and has more responsibility than several hundred burger flippers. Is it 200, 300, 500? I don't know
  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,560 Senior Member
    The physical blue collar "working man" is not the heroic bread winner he once was, this is quite obvious.
    Regardless the "trade".... today's "working man" is truly a sucker by default with rare exceptions.
    If McDonald's or other employees find $15 an hour to be some kind of "victory"... well, that's just cute and kinda funny in my opinion.
    Welcome to the machine..... suckers.
    All of your Trout are belong to me.
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,053 Senior Member
    I agree the CEO makes the tough decisions, but do they deserve that much? Doctors that deal with life and death situations and make far less. The CEO certainly deserves good pay for the responsibilities, but couldn't some that go to those below the CEO who work hard? What we don't have, and I'm not sure how we could come up with it, is a way to give good pay too everybody from the janitor on up without overpaying anybody.
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,007 Senior Member
    As with most in life, it depends.

    "Hard" for jobs with no danger pay premium usually means that few people can do it, either because of the skill set, restrictive access or licensing restrictions.

    But currently CEO pay is not free market based, it is manipulated by CEOs and boards who have discovered that they legally can enrich themselves with pay and perks, and do so. Wouldn't you?

    Large institutional investors rarely quibble with this system. Most of them also have money and perk-gobbling CEOs and boards.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,007 Senior Member
    FishTX wrote: »
    I agree the CEO makes the tough decisions, but do they deserve that much? Doctors that deal with life and death situations and make far less. The CEO certainly deserves good pay for the responsibilities, but couldn't some that go to those below the CEO who work hard? What we don't have, and I'm not sure how we could come up with it, is a way to give good pay too everybody from the janitor on up without overpaying anybody.

    The real money in health care is earned not by doctors, but by CEOs or health care providers and insurers.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    As with most in life, it depends.


    But currently CEO pay is not free market based, it is manipulated by CEOs and boards who have discovered that they legally can enrich themselves with pay and perks, and do so. Wouldn't you?

    Large institutional investors rarely quibble with this system. Most of them also have money and perk-gobbling CEOs and boards.

    X2...

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,263 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    The real money in health care is earned not by doctors, but by CEOs or health care providers and insurers.

    My sister who worked for a major insurer would make comments like, "But he is only a doctor," when discussing what someone makes.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,263 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    Hey start your own thread then. ;)

    Ok, so is working "hard" the qualifier? What makes hard work? Is it hard because you are responsible for a corporation? Or is it hard because you are busting your ****? I guess my "hardest" job ever was working construction digging ditches. I physically worked my butt off. The labor was hard, but anyone could have done it, it wasn't hard mentally. There was nothing special about it.

    Not everyone can run a multi-million dollar corporation, so I would say yes, that is a hell of a lot "harder" to be the CEO of McDs than a grunt flipping the burgers. I would agree that the CEO of McD's is certainly more valuable to the corporation and has more responsibility than several hundred burger flippers. Is it 200, 300, 500? I don't know

    I bet if you were willing to shop around you can find someone that could run Lehman Brothers as well as **** Fuld for 1/500th the money.

    If these CEO's were as extraordinary as some claim we would not go from one financial crisis to another every 5 years.

    These multi-million dollar corporations were doing just fine when they were only making 25 times as much as their average employee.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,176 Senior Member
    The other day I went shopping at Walmart. I used the self-checkout register. A person stands there and watches you as you check out. Is that "watching" job worth $15/hour?

    As it stands right now there are people coming out of college with actual skills and an associates degree that start around ~$15/hour depending on the field.

    The only way I see $15/hour justifiable for minimum wage, is if salaries goes up the same percentage for those with a degree or other skill set.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,263 Senior Member
    What I don't get is, why you would begrudge a McDonald's employee being paid $15 per hour?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,263 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    The other day I went shopping at Walmart. I used the self-checkout register. A person stands there and watches you as you check out. Is that "watching" job worth $15/hour?

    Do you really believe that is all they do all day?

    I use the register, because **** Piggly Wigglies CEO.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,263 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    The other day I went shopping at Walmart. I used the self-checkout register. A person stands there and watches you as you check out. Is that "watching" job worth $15/hour?

    As it stands right now there are people coming out of college with actual skills and an associates degree that start around ~$15/hour depending on the field.

    Sounds like they should ask for more not force someone else to be paid less.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,263 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    The only way I see $15/hour justifiable for minimum wage, is if salaries goes up the same percentage for those with a degree or other skill set.

    And when a college graduate can look at his/her boss and say I can quit and make more at McDonald's his/her employer will pay them more.

    Of course though however the job out of college offers far greater advancement opportunities than working at McDonald's.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,304 Senior Member
    FishTX wrote: »
    I agree the CEO makes the tough decisions, but do they deserve that much? Doctors that deal with life and death situations and make far less. .

    So what do they deserve? That is what I want folks here to tell me. What is the "approved" pay structure for a corporation?

    If the janitor, burger flipper, etc, the bottom rung of the ladder if you will makes $15 an hour what does the next rung make on up to the top?

    Lets take me for example an engineer at Defense Contractors R Us. Lets say in simplest terms it goes like this (obviously there are more layers than I am going to list:
    1) Janitor 2) Technicians 3) Jr Engineers 4) Experienced Engineers 5) Managers 6)VPs 7)CEO

    Lets say the janitors make $15 per hour. What does everyone else make? Lets say this is a fortune 500 company with several billion of dollars revenue per year.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,304 Senior Member
    Why is it that "we" (aka the Lodge) get all pissed off about CEOs making millions of dollars per year but no one seems to get pissed off about the guy hitting a baseball or throwing a football for a heck of a lot more annually?

    We want doctors and people saving lives to make lots more than they do because they add value to society, so shouldn't the guy researching a cure for cancer make a bunch more than Peyton Manning?

    Why don't we hate all millionaires equally?
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,304 Senior Member
    Sounds like they should ask for more not force someone else to be paid less.

    But should we force CEOs to make less?
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,176 Senior Member
    Do you really believe that is all they do all day?

    Yes. I have had to make a trips to wally world twice within an 8 hour time frame because I forgot something...Same person still standing there watching 6-8 hours later in the day.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,176 Senior Member
    Sounds like they should ask for more not force someone else to be paid less.

    Or they look for job that pays more...
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,176 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    Why is it that "we" (aka the Lodge) get all pissed off about CEOs making millions of dollars per year but no one seems to get pissed off about the guy hitting a baseball or throwing a football for a heck of a lot more annually?

    Jealousy? Envy?
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,053 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    What is the "approved" pay structure for a corporation?

    That is the difficult part. I'm not sure there is one answer to all situations. What works in one company, might not for another company. I'm afraid we are stuck with each corporation deciding for itself and we hope that those with power to make the decision are good people.

    I doubt a law could be passed that works for everybody. Minimum wage laws are probably the best we can hope for. They would have to be based on good and current data on what it takes to survive, including food, shelter, medical care, and transportation, clothing etc.
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    Why is it that "we" (aka the Lodge) get all pissed off about CEOs making millions of dollars per year but no one seems to get pissed off about the guy hitting a baseball or throwing a football for a heck of a lot more annually?

    I don't think it's jealousy, but rather that we can see the professional athlete actually doing his job, pair that with the amount of money they generate indirectly (through TV ratings, ad sales, in stadium attendence, concessions etc), and can grasp that a professional's salary is explainable.

    There's not the level of information available explaining what a CEO does on a daily basis to explain his/her salary. So some default to "he/her doesn't probably doesn't earn that".
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,053 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    Why is it that "we" (aka the Lodge) get all pissed off about CEOs making millions of dollars per year but no one seems to get pissed off about the guy hitting a baseball or throwing a football for a heck of a lot more annually?

    We want doctors and people saving lives to make lots more than they do because they add value to society, so shouldn't the guy researching a cure for cancer make a bunch more than Peyton Manning?

    Why don't we hate all millionaires equally?
    We? You never got that from me. I think a lot of people in sports are overpaid. Of course the the other p.o.v. is they do offer an entertainment value and that is based on their abilities. So while I feel many of them are overpaid, I wouldn't want them underpaid. How do you quantify their value?
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,053 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    Yes. I have had to make a trips to wally world twice within an 8 hour time frame because I forgot something...Same person still standing there watching 6-8 hours later in the day.
    OK, but remember you are basing that on what you see, and not on what you don't see. You were not there the whole 6-8 hours. And why shouldn't they get paid as much as others in a similar position at wally-world? Some guy in management decided that having an employ watch that area had a value. It was not the employ who decided that standing there was more important than stocking the shelves.
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • DogwoodDogwood Member Posts: 63 Member
    Here's one possible answer to the question regarding CEO vs. sports star compensation. Certainly not as well thought out as "jealousy or envy" .... The sports star is the main reason why the franchise can afford to pay him that kind of salary. Without that star's stature and productivity, the team may not be nearly so profitable. It is my opinion that the sports star is in more of a "profit sharing" arrangement moreso than excessive compensation. People are willing to pay ridiculous ticket fees (my opinion) to watch the sports star perform so that they can be entertained. The CEO does not contribute nearly the direct value to the company that a sports start contributes to their team. The CEO's value to the company is most often not able to be directly measured, and in the case of jbilly (since I have a very good idea who employs him), one might even surmise that that DCAU's CEOs excessive compensation in comparison to the median workforce compensation is detrimental to the productivity of the company. In the first place, the CEO charges to overhead. The CEO generally adds no direct value to the product or service, so what are we using to measure his worth? Who is measuring his worth and coming up with the decision that he's worth 500x more than the guy who is adding direct value to the product/service? The next point is that, IMO, excessive executive compensation is detrimental to productivity. What do you think the "median" employee thinks of the fact tha the CEO makes 500x as much? Do you think the average employee really thinks that through hard work and dedication to the company, some day they'll too be able to be paid like that? Because that's a bit naive from my 25 yr perspecitve of being a corporate employee. I look at what our CEO makes, how executive decisions are made at that level, how our executive staff withholds key information from employees (whether intentional or not, I have no idea), and wonder just what the hell is the basis of their pay. How can they be so bad at important parts of their job (leadership) and still feel entitled to that level of compensation?

    Best regards,
    Scott
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Dogwood wrote: »
    Here's one possible answer to the question regarding CEO vs. sports star compensation. Certainly not as well thought out as "jealousy or envy" .... The sports star is the main reason why the franchise can afford to pay him that kind of salary. Without that star's stature and productivity, the team may not be nearly so profitable. It is my opinion that the sports star is in more of a "profit sharing" arrangement moreso than excessive compensation. People are willing to pay ridiculous ticket fees (my opinion) to watch the sports star perform so that they can be entertained.

    Why shouldn't LeBron or Peyton take less so the burger flipper at McDonald's can afford to go the game? Anybody here think LeBron wouldn't play for $1.6 million a year rather than $16.5 million?

    And why are diamonds more expensive than water again?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,263 Senior Member
    Magic Johnson once took the league minimum so they could hire better players and give them a better chance at a championship.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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