Let Them Eat Cake

2

Replies

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    When minimum wage goes up, the price of beans goes up. When you pay too much for beans, you feel down. When you feel down you stay in bed. When you stay in bed they give your job to someone new.

    When they give your job to someone new he has a lot to learn. When he has a lot to learn mistakes are made. And when mistakes are made you get body slammed by a lowland Gorilla.

    Don't Get Body Slammed by a Lowland Gorilla.

    Well played, Joe!


    Sent from my ObamaPhone using Tapatalk
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,244 Senior Member
    But if they are not paying taxes here in the first place, even on their US sales, your argument is useless. They are not moving because they pay too much in taxes.

    According to the article you posted, only 2010-2012 they did not pay taxes here.

    For 2013, Pfizer disclosed an effective rate of 27.5 percent and global cash income tax paid of $2.87 billion, including income taxes paid to the U.S. government and other state and foreign tax authorities, based on company filings.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/us-usa-tax-pfizer-analysis-idUSBREA3R1FL20140428

    Kinda sucks when the U.S. the tax code provides an incentive for U.S.-based companies to move overseas doesn't it?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    But if they are not paying taxes here in the first place, even on their US sales, your argument is useless. They are not moving because they pay too much in taxes.

    They're moving because the US tax code is punitive. why is this hard to understand?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    joekrz wrote: »
    According to the article you posted, only 2010-2012 they did not pay taxes here.

    For 2013, Pfizer disclosed an effective rate of 27.5 percent and global cash income tax paid of $2.87 billion, including income taxes paid to the U.S. government and other state and foreign tax authorities, based on company filings.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/us-usa-tax-pfizer-analysis-idUSBREA3R1FL20140428

    Kinda sucks when the U.S. the tax code provides an incentive for U.S.-based companies to move overseas doesn't it?

    Sure does. Problem with soaking the rich is that the rich can move. Another example of the Good Intentions Paving Co. at work.
  • tim_stim_s Senior Member Posts: 1,976 Senior Member
    they are moving because they feel they SHOULDN'T have to pay their share of taxes.....punitive or not is a subjective term.....give them an opportunity to have the benefit without the cost, and they'll take it
    Fly Fishing in Maine - www.flyfishinginmaine.com
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    tim_s wrote: »
    they are moving because they feel they SHOULDN'T have to pay their share of taxes.....punitive or not is a subjective term.....give them an opportunity to have the benefit without the cost, and they'll take it

    "Their share" is just as subjective, I'd point out.

    Again, you can't eat moral certitude. Corporations are leaving, taking jobs with them. What are Dems going to do about it?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,408 Senior Member
    Maybe instead of giving them $2.2 billion we should give them $4 billion? How much free money is France giving them?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,408 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    They're moving because the US tax code is punitive. why is this hard to understand?

    How punitive can it be? We are just giving cash away.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    What are you going to do?

    The British corporate tax rate is 21% and going down to 20% next year. If you ran a company, where would you think you could maximize value for your owners?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,408 Senior Member
    I would stay in the country that just gave me $2 billion. But that's just me.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    "Just you" wouldn't stay a mutlinational CEO long.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,408 Senior Member
    If they fired me for getting free cash from the US government then they are idiots.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    If they fired me for getting free cash from the US government then they are idiots.

    If I was getting free cash from the G I wouldn't either. Probably means Pfizer won't be (if they ever really did). They're not going to Britain for the mushy peas.
  • tim_stim_s Senior Member Posts: 1,976 Senior Member
    i like mashed peas with gravy
    Fly Fishing in Maine - www.flyfishinginmaine.com
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,408 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    If I was getting free cash from the G I wouldn't either. Probably means Pfizer won't be (if they ever really did). They're not going to Britain for the mushy peas.

    Or maybe Britain is not giving them the same incentives to leave their country we do. If they had to pay taxes here whether or they hide their profits overseas, that would remove the incentive to hide their profits overseas. It is not that the tax code it punitive, it is that we provide incentives for the wrong things.

    Again Pfizer did not even pay taxes on their domestic sales. So what is this unfair tax burden they are running from?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    If they had to pay taxes here whether or they hide their profits overseas, that would remove the incentive to hide their profits overseas. It is not that the tax code it punitive, it is that we provide

    Again Pfizer did not even pay taxes on their domestic sales. So what is this unfair tax burden they are running from?

    If you actually did tax Pfizers foreign earnings at U.S. rates whether or not they were repatriated, this would be an even greater incentive to move.
    Pfizer might like to be able to use the $78 billion in cash it's accrued overseas and not pay the differential tax position. And maybe in the future, it could actually avoid the contortions to lower its taxes. Think of the money it could save on accountants.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,408 Senior Member
    We don't even tax Pfizer's domestic earnings at US Rates. So your argument that they are leaving because their taxes here are too high is ****.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Now you're making the assumption that if Pfizer brought its cash hoard back it wouldn't be taxed. And that, my friend, is a **** conclusion. After all, if that were accurate, there wouldn't be an overseas cash hoard to begin.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,408 Senior Member
    No, I am stating the fact that they didn't even pay taxes on the money they earned here in the US. In fact we gave them $2.2 billion. Even if you take the one year where they paid taxes here the rate was only 6% more. But they would still have to pay that for domestic sales regardless, so the tax savings would be even less. Your argument has more holes than swiss cheese.

    The only way your argument does not fall on its face is if the tax rate Pfizer is claiming. is what they pay annually. But as we have already seen that is not the case. They often pay no taxes whatsoever.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,408 Senior Member
    http://www.ips-dc.org/reports/corporate_tax_dodgers
    When a product is sold in America, a chunk of the purchase price is sent to the tax haven to pay for use of the patent, and these funds escape U.S. taxes. One of the companies profiled in this report is Microsoft, which sends 47 cents of every U.S. sales dollar to Puerto Rico to pay for patents on discoveries largely made in the United States. Pfizer has turned these tax-avoiding paper transactions into an art form – it sells 40% of its drugs here but hasn’t reported any U.S. profits in five years. Merck and Citigroup also benefit from offshore tax loopholes.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    You've been telling me that Pfizer hasn't paid taxes on its U.S. earnings. Now you tell me Pfizer has reported no U.S. income to pay taxes on. Which is it?

    I know you don't realize it, but you just made the point...companies will do anything - even try to move to Europe - in order to avoid the high U.S. corporate tax rate. Lower the corporate tax rate to 20% - we'll actually get tax revenues (Pfizer won't care if it pays the tax in England or the U.S.) and save jobs.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,244 Senior Member
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,408 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    You've been telling me that Pfizer hasn't paid taxes on its U.S. earnings. Now you tell me Pfizer has reported no U.S. income to pay taxes on. Which is it?

    Come on, you're not that thick.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Just taking a shot. I knew pretty much all along you were mis-representing.

    So I'm glad we agree that the answer is to lower the U.S. corporate tax rate to that of other economically developed nations.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,408 Senior Member
    Sure as long as they no longer get to hide their profits offshore and no corporation ever again gets $2 billion from the government.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,408 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Just taking a shot. I knew pretty much all along you were mis-representing.

    So I'm glad we agree that the answer is to lower the U.S. corporate tax rate to that of other economically developed nations.

    It is also nice to know that you are gullible enough to believe that Pfizer didn't make a profit in the United States.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,408 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    You've been telling me that Pfizer hasn't paid taxes on its U.S. earnings. Now you tell me Pfizer has reported no U.S. income to pay taxes on. Which is it?

    I know you don't realize it, but you just made the point...companies will do anything - even try to move to Europe - in order to avoid the high U.S. corporate tax rate. Lower the corporate tax rate to 20% - we'll actually get tax revenues (Pfizer won't care if it pays the tax in England or the U.S.) and save jobs.

    Did you see where MS hides money in PR by claiming those products were developed there and not Seattle. Why you think that the solution is not preventing them from cheating that way is beyond reason.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • tim_stim_s Senior Member Posts: 1,976 Senior Member
    so perhaps we should have a government that does the right thing, without being beholden to big money and/or pandering for votes from the masses?



    perhaps we need a reasonable corporate tax code without the loopholes, one that helps provide essential government services while not stifling economic growth? one where corporations pay their reasonable fair share but are not penalized for their profit?


    perhaps we also need pet unicorns.....because that's just as likely
    Fly Fishing in Maine - www.flyfishinginmaine.com
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Comic,

    Yes or no. Do you realize that when "companies hide their profits overseas," they still pay taxes at the rates mandated by the jurisdictions in which they claim the earnings?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,408 Senior Member
    I don't care. If the profits are made on sales here, using our infrastructure, they pay taxes here. Or leave the country altogether. I am sick of money being given to corporate freeloaders.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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