Scholarship Athletes are Employees

and can unionize. So rules a NLRB board member.
The NCAA will appeal to the full National Labor Relations Board.

John L. Lewis would be so proud.
«1

Replies

  • Scott ButnerScott Butner Senior Member Posts: 3,918 Senior Member
    about **** time. The idea that college athletics have anything to do with education is a joke, at least in the major sports (I realize it's not the same in the minor sports like soccer, etc). The athletes bring in enormous revenues for the schools, the coaches are paid ridiculous salaries -- and the athletes get little out of it -- why not just be honest and call it the farm leagues for NFL and NBA, and stop pretending it's anything else?
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,914 Senior Member
    What Scott said.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Better watch what you say in public Scott. I read: Basketball and football players (black kids) don't get much out of college. Soccer players (white kids) do.

    And of course, your typical freshman or sophomore in college isn't big enough or strong enough for the NFL.

    University of Wisconsin is $164,000 for four years. Very few of these kids will ever play pro ball, so how much are they really worth? I have more sympathy with things like concussion protocol reform and injury care.
  • Scott ButnerScott Butner Senior Member Posts: 3,918 Senior Member
    Basketball and football are the only college sports that I am aware of that generate net income for the schools. Every other program costs money.

    I think that it's only fair that students that are putting the athletic directors, coaches, etc into the 1% share in some of that wealth.

    personally, I'd prefer to see colleges switch to intramural sports and just get out of the semi-pro sports business altogether.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    How are they going to collectively bargain for "a share" when countless thousands of others will play for nothing? Its not a rhetorical question. I'm genuinely curious. Having the power to engage in collective bargaining isn't the same as having something to collectively bargain for.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,064 Senior Member
    I think that it's only fair that students that are putting the athletic directors, coaches, etc into the 1% share in some of that wealth.

    Don't most of these college athletes share in that wealth via football/basketball scholarships that are used toward their tuition?

    My son-in-law turned down a full ride to play college football in one of the southern states.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,871 Senior Member
    What percentage are able to take enough courses to graduate before their scholarships run out?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,871 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Better watch what you say in public Scott. I read: Basketball and football players (black kids) don't get much out of college. Soccer players (white kids) do.

    And of course, your typical freshman or sophomore in college isn't big enough or strong enough for the NFL.

    University of Wisconsin is $164,000 for four years. Very few of these kids will ever play pro ball, so how much are they really worth? I have more sympathy with things like concussion protocol reform and injury care.

    I would be also happier if there was more emphasis on graduation rates and making sure these kids are even prepared for college level course work.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,854 Senior Member
    I laugh every time I hear the term "student athletes." The NCAA is a cesspool of greed and corruption.
    I'm generally on board with what Scott says. This is a step in the right direction but more needs to be done.

    Quite honestly, the NCAA's hypocrisy is so bad that I don't watch any of the really big program's football games. I like watching the relatively smaller schools because I'm able to fool myself into thinking that maybe some of the kids have actually seen the inside of a classroom.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,217 Senior Member
    I would be also happier if there was more emphasis on graduation rates and making sure these kids are even prepared for college level course work.

    Don't worry grade inflation should take care of all of this.
  • fishnbanjofishnbanjo Senior Member Posts: 240 Senior Member
    Sorry Scott, and other nay sayer's, but I'm going to disagree with a caveat. I'll be honest and say some colleges MAY fit what you said but I know two young ladies who got full boat Division 1 Scholarships. 1 to UVM for basketball the other to Georgetown Univ. for Lacrosse. The young woman who went to UVM (where grades were #1 and off the team you went if you did not produce) graduated with a 3.96 GPA and was the recipient of America East Academic Achievement Award and is head coach for Women's Basketball at Phillips Andover Academy where she is also a math teacher and has also completed her MS at UNH only because it was closer to home. she could have gone to UVM and received it free but was married and with a child it would have been difficult as her husband was Dean of Students at the time at Phillips Andover. She finished her career at UVM ranking among the all-time leaders in 10 different categories. She graduated ranked 11th among the all-time leading scorers with 1,227 points and is one of seven players in school history to score over 1,000 points, grab 500 rebounds and hand out 200 assists. She currently ranks among the top-10 in free throw percentage, blocks, 3-point field goals made, and games played. As a senior, she earned America East All-Conference Second Team honors and was named to the America East All-Championship squad. She was also named the team MVP in her final season of 2004-05. Most recently was named to the 2013 New England Basketball Hall of Fame

    The other young lady graduated from Georgetown and joined the Teach for America corps member in Los Angeles. She taught first grade for two years. She returned to Georgetown University to study law and received her JD in Law and is in practice in NY at this time. She has been published in the Wisconsin Journal of Law, Gender, and Society - A Respect for the Fundamental Notion of Fairness: The IAAF, Hyperandrogenism, and Women Athletes and has also been a guest speaker at the 2013 Maine Medical Directors Association Annual Meeting. topic being The Anatomy of a Fall.

    Both of these women worked very hard for their grades and I can vouch for their ethic to achieve. While I admit these are only 2 cases there are many others among the 2 universities I've mentioned and others as well.

    about **** time. The idea that college athletics have anything to do with education is a joke, at least in the major sports (I realize it's not the same in the minor sports like soccer, etc). The athletes bring in enormous revenues for the schools, the coaches are paid ridiculous salaries -- and the athletes get little out of it -- why not just be honest and call it the farm leagues for NFL and NBA, and stop pretending it's anything else?
  • Scott ButnerScott Butner Senior Member Posts: 3,918 Senior Member
    note that I said "major sports" and later refined that further to mean "profitable sports" -- i.e., men's basketball and football.

    beyond that, it's sort of a moot point because the athletes generally cost the schools money, so where's their bargaining power?

    I'd still prefer to see all college sports be made intramural, and focus those scholarship dollars on academic excellence -- but don't have the concerns about them that I do for the big $ sports.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,871 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Bak4MorBak4Mor Senior Member Posts: 970 Senior Member
    Pay the kids.

    Manziel is a jerk and my guess a flop in NFL but him being sanctioned for autographs when NCAA is selling jerseys with his name on the back is the ultimate in hypocrisy and a prime example of all that is wrong with current system.
    "All I have is a piece of hard rock candy. But it's not for eatin'. It's just for lookin' through. " ~Lone Watie
  • Bak4MorBak4Mor Senior Member Posts: 970 Senior Member
    I think the pro sports leagues share part of the blame in this also.
    "All I have is a piece of hard rock candy. But it's not for eatin'. It's just for lookin' through. " ~Lone Watie
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,871 Senior Member
    I think the point about them losing copy rights for their name and likenesses is a valid one.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,914 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Better watch what you say in public Scott. I read: Basketball and football players (black kids) don't get much out of college. Soccer players (white kids) do.

    And of course, your typical freshman or sophomore in college isn't big enough or strong enough for the NFL.

    University of Wisconsin is $164,000 for four years. Very few of these kids will ever play pro ball, so how much are they really worth? I have more sympathy with things like concussion protocol reform and injury care.

    C'mon Steven, you can do better than that. Scott's reply nailed it. Soccer players, gymnasts, swimmers etc. don't generate tons-o-cash.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    George K wrote: »
    C'mon Steven, you can do better than that. Scott's reply nailed it. Soccer players, gymnasts, swimmers etc. don't generate tons-o-cash.

    C'mon

    Embarassingly weak George...unless you're arguing that the very nature of playing a popular sport that generates net income somehow affects how much a player gets out of college.

    College hockey or baseball doesn't generate much income (probably a loss I'd suspect). The kids who play spend as much time on athletics as football or basketball players. I can't see why they get more out of college just because their sports don't make money.

    Scott's wrong on another point. If he wants more money to spend on academic excellence, you keep men's football and basketball. Even if the coaches are outrageously paid, these programs generate income (revenue is greater than expenses) which can be spent on academic pursuits. Get rid of all the other sports - both men's and women's.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Better watch what you say in public Scott. I read: Basketball and football players (black kids) don't get much out of college. Soccer players (white kids) do.

    I don't think it's Scott that has to worry about what he says in public.

    There's more important problems than paying the student-athletes that unionizing might solve. Things like work-comp issues (like loss of scholarships if they are injured "on the job") and the NCAA using the athletes likinesses without compensation (forever, which is the Ed O'Bannon suit).

    I think a nominal stipend in addition to tuition for all the student athletes would be fair compensation.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    You really want to call this out the same time the twitterati are screaming that Rumsfeld is racist for calling the President a trained ape? Please....


    To the question at hand. The NCAA is a trade association. It isn't a party to the original hearing, won't be a party to the appeal and won't be a party when this eventually goes to the Federal Courts. Unionization will have little effect on the O'Bannon issues (although the NCAA no longer sells jerseys and stuff with players names after being called out for being hypocritical last year).

    Northwestern is the employer. Northwestern would pay the student athletes (as if $58,000 per year in tuition isn't enough, especially for a men's basketball team that has never been to the Tournament in its history).
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    You really want to call this out the same time the twitterati are screaming that Rumsfeld is racist for calling the President a trained ape? Please....

    Good source of reference material... twitter. Please. Even a trained ape wouldn't use twitter as a source to explain away their bigotry.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    You're wasting valuable internet space. One of those twittering would be Nancy Pelosi.

    Google: Rumsfeld Racist. Even Slate found the need to defend him from their own.

    There is no way that if Mitt Romney said, "football players and basketball players aren't really students and probably don't belong in college to begin with but soccer players are real students," the internet wouldn't blow up with accusations of racism. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is.
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 2,965 Senior Member
    Hex bought it up, I just asked a question. I wouldn't want you getting into any trouble.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie just look at the flowers.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,871 Senior Member
    I ticks me off that you set yourself up like that and I cannot respond without getting a PM.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    It might be worth it!!

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,905 Senior Member
    First, 58,000$ a year for most any college is highway robbery.
    The problem is that the demands the coaches put on the players often makes it hard for them to get a good education. Also, the NCAA is essentially a monopoly that is able to control the conditions of "employment", such as compensation for lifetime injuries, etc., through it's control of member schools.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Uh, never mind.

    Seems those scholarships might become taxable if players were to unionize. I'm not sure that back up center on the NU football team is really going to want to pay taxes on that $58,000.
  • ouzelproouzelpro Senior Member Posts: 5,361 Senior Member
    Steven is in a twitter over Rumsfeld's "treatment". How he got it on this thread is pretty bush league.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Er no.

    Just taking slight umbrage at being called a bigot for pointing out how a comment can be taken out of context. Rummy and Colbert came after.

    Prescient? Yes.

    Thanks for playing. Better luck next time.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction.

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Fly Fisherman stories delivered right to your inbox.