If Corporations are people...

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Replies

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,274 Senior Member
    I just figured it out. Swizz = Alex Jones.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,560 Senior Member
    swizz is swizz
    not familiar with Jones, I speak the writing on the wall
    All of your Trout are belong to me.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    538 is suggesting that electoral disaster looms. . . is Obamacare to blame?
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,180 Senior Member
  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,560 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    . . . is Obamacare to blame?
    no, that's going awesome, totally on track. Haven't you seen the news?
    All of your Trout are belong to me.
  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,560 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    Only 40 million more to go.



    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
    Everybody loves it! (except for that 40 million)
    All of your Trout are belong to me.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,274 Senior Member
    swizz wrote: »
    swizz is swizz
    not familiar with Jones, I speak gibberish.

    there ya go
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,180 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    538 is suggesting that electoral disaster looms. . . is Obamacare to blame?

    If you are one of the people that saw their premiums double...then yes.

    If your one of the people who don't like to be forced to buy insurance or pay a fine...then yes.

    If your a business with more than 50 full time employees and your forced to provide insurance for them...then yes.





    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    You're wasting your time telling me that Obamacare sucks. I know the party line.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,274 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    If you are one of the people that saw their premiums double...then yes.

    If your one of the people who don't like to be forced to buy insurance or pay a fine...then yes.

    If your a business with more than 50 full time employees and your forced to provide insurance for them...then yes.





    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

    Okay so like a thousand people.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0

    The question isn't how many have enrolled but how many have paid. The Administration isn't saying.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,274 Senior Member
    Thank you for providing us with the Fox talking point.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,180 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    You're wasting your time telling me that Obamacare sucks. I know the party line.

    Which party?

    http://time.com/6771/democrats-run-away-from-obamacare/
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    swizz wrote: »
    I think they're last gasp to get people to enroll will be to make the penalties ridiculously high.

    Not much to worry about here. That's not something that Obama can legislate on his own or to which a Republican controlled House will ever agree. Remember, John Roberts said it's not a penalty but a tax...and Republicans don't raise taxes.

    Anybody here paying attention to the Halbig v. Sebelius? I think this one could have legs but I'm not sure if Halbig actually has the legislative history right.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Thank you for providing us with the Fox talking point.

    CNBC, National Underwriter, Business Insurance, Investment Advisor, Forbes...**** that's not on Yahoo's front page.
  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,560 Senior Member
    People vote with their wallets largely.... and over 40 million are pretty pissed right now.
    All of your Trout are belong to me.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,274 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,180 Senior Member
    Okay so like a thousand people.

    10,000 businesses alone affected by the employer mandate...

    http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-employer-mandate.php

    Now add to that the number of people forced to buy because of the individual mandate + the number of people that continued to purchase insurance but saw their premium double. That's more than a thousand pissed off folks.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,274 Senior Member
    As opposed to millions who are getting insurance for the first time or those that are no longer being held hostage by their employers because of pre-existing conditions and it is lower than $1.2 billion. There are probably more people that are finding their premiums are lower for better healthcare. Now let's talk about the 3 million people that are being kicked off unemployment insurance. If you read the Nate Silver assessment all Obama has to do is raise his approval ratings a few ticks by August and it is lights out for Republicans.

    BTW what are the odds obamacarefacts is a reliable unbiased news source?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,180 Senior Member
    As opposed to millions who are getting insurance for the first time

    Not exactly true. Read on.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/02/10/durbins-claim-that-10-million-now-have-health-insurance-because-of-obamacare/
    or those that are no longer being held hostage by their employers because of pre-existing conditions

    Employer sponsored insurance always accepted people with pre-existing conditions. Unless you meant something else??
    There are probably more people that are finding their premiums are lower for better healthcare.

    Only for the small amount of people that obtained insurance through the exchange. There are far more people (not on the exchange) that are finding their premiums have doubled since last October. Hang tight. It's going to get worse...

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-healthcare-premiums-20140321,0,480710.story
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    It's about 1 million people on the exchanges who did not have insurance last year. No idea if this is the "first time" for all these people. We also don't know if these people could have gotten insurance in the past and decided not to.

    From the WSJ:

    "Amid one more last minute regulatory delay, number 38 at last count, the mandate forcing nuns to sponsor birth control is more or less the only part of Obamacare that is still intact."
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,274 Senior Member
    Only 11 percent of consumers who bought new coverage under the law were previously uninsured, according to a McKinsey & Co. survey

    I am sure this survey is extremely reliable [eye roll]. This is information that really actually is unknowable.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,274 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    Only for the small amount of people that obtained insurance through the exchange. There are far more people (not on the exchange) that are finding their premiums have doubled since last October. Hang tight. It's going to get worse...

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-healthcare-premiums-20140321,0,480710.story

    If this were true you would think that Americans For Prosperity would be able to actually find one.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Only 11 percent of consumers who bought new coverage under the law were previously uninsured, according to a McKinsey & Co. survey

    I am sure this survey is extremely reliable [eye roll]. This is information that really actually is unknowable.

    Why would it be any more or less reliable than any other survey? Or do you suspect McKinsey of some ulterior motive?
    You call up a large number of people, ask them if they had insurance in 2013 and they say yes or no. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Not sure why those surveyed would lie.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,274 Senior Member
    No I don't really think surveys are actually empirical. Remember all the polls that told us Romney was going to win Ohio?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    No I don't really think surveys are actually empirical. Remember all the polls that told us Romney was going to win Ohio?

    I remember just as many that didn't. It wasn't as if Ohio was a Dem blow out. And of course, people change their minds. Asking "Will you vote for Romney" before the election is not the same as "Did you vote for Romney," after the election.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,274 Senior Member
    Look if I see a number that is ridiculous on its face, even if it supports my position, I still assume the number is ridiculous.

    You got these schmucks saying 11% but in the same article you have this:
    Of course, these percentages may change with time. Avalere, a health consulting firm, estimates that, once the law is fully implemented in 2017, about 68 percent of the people who obtained insurance through the exchanges will be newly insured.

    When did they do their survey, in November? Who did they call? What state was it? What were their demographics? What was the insurance they had prior? Why did they lose that insurance? Were some of them laid-off and trying to get by on COBRA? Did they switch because they found a better deal on the exchange? The number is **** on its face.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,274 Senior Member
    Oh and look now that same company is saying 27%.

    http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/06/news/economy/obamacare-uninsured/

    Yup that is a reliable estimate alright.

    BTW 27% of a 5 million is over a million.

    Also BTW why would previously insured people purchasing insurance on the exchange be a bad thing? The true outreach for the poor was the Medicaid expansion. The exchange was just a way to provide middle class people with options.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Did you have, didn't you have?

    The rest of your questions weren't important to the point. You said "millions of people are getting insurance for the first time." That strikes me as unlikely and I pointed out why.


    Not exactly on your synopsis.

    Here's the latest McKinsey survey from February:
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/03/08/mckinsey-only-14-of-obamacare-exchange-sign-ups-are-previously-uninsured-enrollees/

    Now do you have anything that suggests a high proportion of the 5 million are getting coverage for the first time?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,274 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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