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Thread: How’s that Russian Collusion investigation going?

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn C. View Post
    I have a question for George and Goldenladle. Sorry to pick on you guys for your, uh, "experience and wisdom" but not many of us here were around for Watergate.
    So... What was the political climate like when the heat really started to get hot for Nixon? Was 1/2 of the American media on his side? Were a majority of conservatives in complete denial?
    Nixon had been the inventor of the "soft on communism" label for Dems in his senate campaign in California, and he was strongly anti-union (who were at the peak of their power), so people on the left really hated him. And yes, the press hated him, and it was mutual. I think Conservatives sensed that Nixon wasn't really a true believer,( he imposed mandatory price controls to fight inflation) but supported him. But the Viet war, violent protests, and the draft was on, and it inflamed everyone's emotions. Everyone was angry. Protesters and onlookers shot at a distance by National Guard troops at Kent State: the NG weren't even supposed to have bullets. Without the anger over the war, I think its possible that the GOP in Congress would have continued to support him, and he could have survived Watergate. I was back from VN service when he resigned, and very happy to hear the news.
    People now spend much time just laughing at the circus that is Donald. They didn't laugh about Nixon or the war. That said, Nixon could never have gotten away with the crap that Trump does. Different times.

    To be fair, he signed the National Environmental Policy Act that created the EPA and the EIS process, the Clean Water Act, Clean Air Act, and other environmental laws, broke the bamboo curtain by meeting with Red China, and did other things liberals in time liked. But, he delayed the VN treaty by years because he wanted to wait till after his reelection.

  2. #172
    Senior Member Shawn C.'s Avatar
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    Thanks for the insight, Creekguy.

  3. #173
    Super Moderator George K's Avatar
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    Nixon used the line that Dems were soft on Communism so often that it was a truism that only he could restore full relations with China - any Democrat who had attempted to do so would have been accused of treason by Nixon. It's good to remember that the label "Tricky Dickey" was applied to him long before Watergate; he was a complete sleazebag. When he was VP under Ike, Eisenhower despised him and, as I recall, endorsed his candidacy for President reluctantly or not at all when he ran against JFK.

    So yes, the press, liberal, conservative and in the middle did not like him. But then again, almost no one who dealt with him did. As his presidency became mired down in scandals (VP Agnew taking bribe $$ in his EOB office, then Watergate of course) he became ever more paranoid (google "Nixon enemies list"). His appeal to "the silent majority" was in some ways the forerunner of Trumpsters, but they were more tradional lower middle class. The 1960s were a time of enormous political and social upheaval. Nixon was the wrong man at the wrong time, but he also did a number of good things (see below).

    I suppose some conservatives were in denial, but most Republicans agreed at the end that he had to go. He resigned rather than face impeachment and near certain conviction.

    As a measure of how much the GOPoT has changed since then, look at a few of Nixon's policy innovations and achievements that today's Republican's would rather not remember.

    - He founded the EPA.
    - He began a "war on cancer" with $100 million in federal research funds.
    - He proposed a negative income tax as an anti-poverty measure (not enacted by Congress).
    - He signed Title IX, the civil right legislation that forced colleges to take women's athletics seriously.
    - He enforced the integration of schools throughout the South and border states.
    - He ended the war in Viet Nam, albeit by selling-out the South Vietnamese.
    - He (and Henry Kissinger) made pragmatism an important part of U.S. foreign policy without completely abandoning principle. The greatest benefit was the policy of "detente" with the Soviet Union, and, of course, normalization of relations with China
    - He ended forced assimilation of native Americans, and he increased tribal autonomy.
    - He began a program for energy independence after the oil embargo of 1973.

    These accomplishments reinforce the fact that almost nothing in life is black and white, it's usually shades of gray.
    Last edited by George K; 12-06-2017 at 04:38 PM.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.

  4. #174
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    The reason I find this place so interesting can be found in several of the posts above. We might not agree on everything politically, but I do believe that you guys are good to the core. Thanks for taking the time to share.

  5. #175
    Senior Member swizz's Avatar
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    I saw a report that the Mueller collusion probe is now under House investigation. That's interesting, hope everything's ok.
    All of your Trout are belong to me.

  6. #176
    Super Moderator FishTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdB View Post
    You are two steps away from telling us the solution is to eliminate the money system.

    What"s wrong with that, it is the only solution to the corrupt political system.
    There will always be some form of money. Even if money as we know it today goes away, something will always be traded for something else (a good or service). There will always be corruption in a political system. The best I think we can do is get hard on the those who are corrupt. Start handing out maximum prison sentences and some, but not all, of that will go away.
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.

  7. #177
    Super Moderator George K's Avatar
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    I can only add that there always will be a "medium of exchange", be it gold or other precious metal, U$S or or other currency real or digital, furs, wampum, clay discs or energy credits. Despite what Ed B and others may believe you can't change human nature
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.

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