What's the big deal with this Memo?

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Replies

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,765 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    I don't see how it matters one iota whether the warrant would have been issued with or without acknowledging that the dossier was paid for by opposition to Trump.

    If the FBI and DOJ knew this, and didn't disclose it, heads should be cut off and put on spikes.

    Disclose it to whom?
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,966 Senior Member
    The FISA Court
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,765 Senior Member
    Is that required? Legally, I mean.

    I'm not trolling, I really don't know if the FISA court requires disclosure of the source of the information.

    Politics has muddled this thing so badly its hard to know, and I'm too lazy to read the statute.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,966 Senior Member
    I don't know if it's legally required, but to not disclose it strikes me as misleading.

    Maybe it's just on TV, but don't prosecutors have to bring forth exculpatory evidence? I equate what happened with the FISA Court to this.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,765 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »

    Maybe it's just on TV, but don't prosecutors have to bring forth exculpatory evidence? I equate what happened with the FISA Court to this.

    No, that's a real thing. It just doesn't apply in every context. I'd maybe look at it a different way. Is the source of the information ispo facto exculpatory? I can't see how. Normally exculpatory evidence requires factual evidence that would lessen the defendant's guilt or mitigate a possible sentence.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,765 Senior Member
    My office Fourth Amendment expert says that the source would have to be disclosed if it was relied on in State Court, but he doesn't know anything more than I do about FISA.

    So there you go.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,568 Senior Member
    Some more political muddle. Schiff on Russia TV arguing for more FISA transparency. :)

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,354 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    I don't buy this one bit, and I really don’t understand how anyone can. Partisan politics aside, they got a FISA warrant based on unverified dossier that was paid for by the opposition to the administration it was directed at. That’s fact. They failed on multiple occasions to disclose the connections. Mccabe admitted that without the dossier there would be no FISA warrant. The dems fought tooth and nail against releasing this doc claiming national security risks.

    “Second, we knew that Steele shopped the information in the dossier to various reporters to try to get them published during the election. Third, the contents of this dossier were so unverified that virtually all of the reporters declined to run the story during the campaign.”

    “However, my greatest concern is what is not in the dossier: classified information “jeopardizing national security.” Leaders like Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) declared that the committee had moved beyond “dangerous irresponsibility and disregard for our national security” and “disregarded the warnings of the Justice Department and the FBI.”
    Now we can read the memo. There is a sharp and alarming disconnect between the descriptions of Pelosi and the House Intelligence Committee’s Ranking Minority Member Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) and the actual document. It clearly does not contain information that would reveal sources or methods.”


    That’s a cherry alright. A big fat juicy one that certainly needed picking.

    Did anyone notice how after it was released the Dems turned it from a bomb blast to the intelligence community, to a nothing burger?

    Duuuuuuude,

    Wow. Just, wow. You (and Fox News) are entitled to your own opinion but you can't make up your own facts. I know you distrust traditional media but go read a WSJ or NYT article or three and then get back with us.

    Just for starters, Carter Page has been investigated previously in 2013 for possible Kremlin ties. Also, was the FISA warrant granted simply because of the Steele dossier? Who says? Devin Nunes? Correct me if I'm wrong but he did not even have access to the raw intel for which his memo is supposed to be based upon! He recused himself from the investigation months ago because of his ineptitude! What other materials did they present to the court in the FISA application? Any idea? Me neither! But I will bet you anything and everything that they didn't go to a judge solely with a hackneyed, political-driven BS 'dossier' and say "Here ya go, give us permission to spy on an American citizen because, DURRR." To think otherwise is utterly ridiculous!

    Look, man. Get out of the alternate reality that has been created by the Trump Media Conglomerate. This memo is nothing but a bunch of unsourced right-wing talking points.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,354 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    I'm not pretending this is some sort of watershed moment, but it's certainly exposing some seriously questionable motives and conflicts of interest within the FBI and DOJ. If you can't see that, you need to remove the rose colored glasses.

    I know, right? The DOJ and FBI have always been run by and staffed with a bunch of liberal ****'s. I'm so glad their leftist deep-state plot in being uncovered.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,339 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    Some more political muddle. Schiff on Russia TV arguing for more FISA transparency. :)



    Ahhh Russian Times. This explains much. You do get this is Putin's personnel network doncha?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,339 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,966 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    I know, right? The DOJ and FBI have always been run by and staffed with a bunch of liberal ****'s. I'm so glad their leftist deep-state plot in being uncovered.

    Plenty of conservatives thought Trump was dangerous.
    #neverTrump was a Republican movement, no?
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,568 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Plenty of conservatives thought Trump was dangerous.
    #neverTrump was a Republican movement, no?

    Bingo. Most of them were against him from day one. That's what so many seem to be missing when they make the connection. This wasn't a Republican movement. He used the republican party like a tool. People got sick of the **** and took the red pill.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,568 Senior Member
    Ahhh Russian Times. This explains much. You do get this is Putin's personnel network doncha?

    You mean where it says "Adam Schiff on Russian Owned TV"? Yes I get that it's Russia Times. How is that helping Adams case? He was all for more transparency in FISA cases. Now,, not so much.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,339 Senior Member
    He is fine with transparency which is why he has a memo of his own. Watch as the Republicans come out against that.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,568 Senior Member
    He is fine with transparency which is why he has a memo of his own. Watch as the Republicans come out against that.

    Except Republicans have already approved the release.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia/house-committee-votes-to-release-democrats-russia-memo-idUSKBN1FP1P6

    Democrats on the other hand fought tooth and nail to prevent the first one from being released.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,339 Senior Member
    The vote will send the 10-page Democratic memo to the White House as soon as Monday night, giving Trump until Friday to decide whether to allow its release.

    I think it is adorable that you think Trump will allow its release.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,568 Senior Member
    I think it is adorable that you think Trump will allow its release.

    I can't see where he has a choice.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,339 Senior Member
    You can't? Seriously, he is going to let the FBI weigh in and like with the previous memo they will state that they do not believe it should be released, that will give him cover and he will refuse to release it.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,339 Senior Member
    It is like I am a fortune teller.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,354 Senior Member
    Ha!!! You nailed that one, Chris!
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,339 Senior Member
    **** that liberal media.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,568 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    Ha!!! You nailed that one, Chris!

    Well, Fox predicted over a week ago.

    Honest question. Do you guys think there was any wrong doing by Clinton or the previous admin as far as this election? Was there any attempt by anyone to "fix" the election for her?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,339 Senior Member
    How many articles from Wiki Leaks were there regarding the many Trump scandals? Do you really think that the Russians couldn't get a hold of Trumps taxes?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,905 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    Well, Fox predicted over a week ago.

    Honest question. Do you guys think there was any wrong doing by Clinton or the previous admin as far as this election? Was there any attempt by anyone to "fix" the election for her?

    There is ongoing "management" in places like Chicago . Suppression of black votes in other States by reducing the access to polling places, etc is probably much larger.
    IMO, Fixing the election is very difficult, it has to be 50-50 already, because so few votes can be added or removed. Its a Red Herring.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,471 Senior Member
    There definitely was a successful attempt by the theoretically neutral DNC to steer the nomination to Hillary; mostly because she spent time and money packing it with her people in the years preceding 2016, and potential rivals were asleep at the wheel. Reforms supposedly have returned the DNC to neutrality, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

    But inattention can be a two edged sword. That's why Republicans most likely will be fielding Arthur Jones, the former head of the American **** Party, for Congress from Illinois' 3rd District this November.

    ...Jones told the Sun-Times he is a former leader of the American **** Party and now heads a group called the America First Committee. “Membership in this organization is open to any white American citizen of European, non-Jewish descent,” he said...

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/holocaust-denier-arthur-jones-republican-3rd-congressional-district-lipinski-newman/
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,354 Senior Member
    I hate Illinois ****.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,966 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    I hate Illinois ****.


    White men! White women! The swastika is calling you. The sacred and ancient symbol of your race, since the beginning of time. The Jew is using The Black as muscle against you. And you are left there helpless. Well, what are you going to do about it, Whitey? Just sit there? Of course not! You are going to join with us. The members of the American Socialist White Peoples' Party. An organization of decent, law abiding white folk. Just like you!
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,354 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    White men! White women! The swastika is calling you. The sacred and ancient symbol of your race, since the beginning of time. The Jew is using The Black as muscle against you. And you are left there helpless. Well, what are you going to do about it, Whitey? Just sit there? Of course not! You are going to join with us. The members of the American Socialist White Peoples' Party. An organization of decent, law abiding white folk. Just like you!

    Thanks for making me laugh. Man, I do love that movie!
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