If Rubio gets this child tax credit thing done

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  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member
    I'm not a huge deficit worrier, Jim. Its just that most of you guys apparently are, until you are not. I'm just raising the point. But given the options I do believe that tax-and-spend is a lot better than don't tax-and-spend.

    All in all this goes against my grain but I have to admit I have larger concerns such as reductions in national monuments, environmental deregulation and keeping protections for workers. And I really, really, really want single payer.

    Also, I'm not sure I'm going to be paying less taxes with these changes. Not because I'm wealthy (at all) but because we have no children.

    I think you guys have been bought off. You (and I, perhaps) may get a few hundred dollars more in our pockets to spend as the super-rich continue to get more and more breaks. But if you are not worried about wage stagnation and increasing wealth disparity then I'm not going to hold it against you. We all have different priorities.

    Thank you for your honest answers even if Sherb completely pussied out on giving his opinion. ;) #draglessdrift
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,535 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    I'm not a huge deficit worrier, Jim. Its just that most of you guys apparently are, until you are not. I'm just raising the point. But given the options I do believe that tax-and-spend is a lot better than don't tax-and-spend.

    All in all this goes against my grain but I have to admit I have larger concerns such as reductions in national monuments, environmental deregulation and keeping protections for workers. And I really, really, really want single payer.

    Also, I'm not sure I'm going to be paying less taxes with these changes. Not because I'm wealthy (at all) but because we have no children.

    I think you guys have been bought off. You (and I, perhaps) may get a few hundred dollars more in our pockets to spend as the super-rich continue to get more and more breaks. But if you are not worried about wage stagnation and increasing wealth disparity then I'm not going to hold it against you. We all have different priorities.

    Thank you for your honest answers even if Sherb completely pussied out on giving his opinion. ;) #draglessdrift

    Ya mean ya don't want the Chinese calling in their loan?
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member
    Bushart wrote: »
    Those tax dollars involve more than Beggars

    Ya want roads...bridges...medicare...defense.....aid for disaster relief.....science advancements....environmental clean-up---power dams----coast guard---fighting fires in say California...etc...you get it....it's not all welfare no matter what Fox News says

    If you can honestly say you can live without those conveniences---by all means---don't pay tax

    Ok, now you got me fired up (it doesn't take much these days!). These big-government hating Mormons here in Utah sure love them some government funded U.S. Forest Service fire fighting aircraft this summer when South Ogden was on fire. Man, they loved that ****. A bag of marshmallows is a lot cheaper.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,535 Senior Member
    Also---here's a biggie to the argument if so----Welfare in my country is distributed at the municipal level----disability at provincial---so is welfare a local level there? (and tax thereof)

    These cuts bending you over are Federal
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,535 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    Ok, now you got me fired up (it doesn't take much these days!). These big-government hating Mormons here in Utah sure love them some government funded U.S. Forest Service fire fighting aircraft this summer when South Ogden was on fire. Man, they loved that ****. A bag of marshmallows is a lot cheaper.

    Yes their alternative can come from our history books---where families escaped massive fires by diving into the local river
    this **** just does'nt appear---we don't work for nothing---neither does anybody else
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member
    Also, we tried this approach in Kansas. That was a disaster. Oh well. I guess the "laboratories of democracy" are only a real thing when they support your point.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 9,571 Senior Member
    It's not just welfare. That's just indicative of the largesse. It's the most visible example. Nobody here has any idea the amount of waste that goes on in federal spending.

    Do you guys really believe there is nothing we can cut? That we are so close to the verge of complete ruin that we cannot even consider cutting taxes and spending?

    I've already said that we can cut on the favorite whipping boy of the left: military. Now which one of your sacred cows can we cut next? As suspected, the infrastructure argument came up. Fire, public works, roads. Yeah, I'm all for supporting those. I obviously use them. But transportation is like 2% of the budget. Let's talk about those larger sections of federal spending.

    Finally, it's not about the measly dollars I may get back in tax refunds. And
  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 613 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    It's not just welfare. That's just indicative of the largesse. It's the most visible example. Nobody here has any idea the amount of waste that goes on in federal spending.

    Do you guys really believe there is nothing we can cut? That we are so close to the verge of complete ruin that we cannot even consider cutting taxes and spending?

    I've already said that we can cut on the favorite whipping boy of the left: military. Now which one of your sacred cows can we cut next? As suspected, the infrastructure argument came up. Fire, public works, roads. Yeah, I'm all for supporting those. I obviously use them. But transportation is like 2% of the budget. Let's talk about those larger sections of federal spending.

    Finally, it's not about the measly dollars I may get back in tax refunds. And

    The spending is largely defense, social security and Medicare.

    See: https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/

    Good pie charts.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,201 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    If you call 2.6% huge, my boss would love to have you as an employee.

    What is 2.6% of a million?

    Funny how when they give you a 2.6% raise, you are supposed to think that is huge.

    In either case just like when W did this, it will not result in added jobs, better pay, or more growth. And just as it has since Reagan it will widen the wealth gap and double the national debt.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,201 Senior Member
    The spending is largely defense, social security and Medicare.

    See: https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/

    Good pie charts.

    Social Security and Medicare are funded by separate taxes, that would be more taking from Joe Sixpack to give to Richie Rich.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,201 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Classic class warfare in play, as well. It's as old as time.

    Nobody in the upper 1% are suffering under the current tax code and not everyone that is rich busted their **** to get there. Trump being the best example of that.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,201 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Why should you want yourself, or anyone else, to pay more taxes? We always hear about tax raising and lowering. Never do we hear about spending cuts.

    I don't believe in the boogey man that is the white fat cat on Wall Street. Yet that's what is always offered up every time we talk about tax cuts. Why do we support these rich guys? My boss is double taxed. He's also my father. He is one of the "rich fat cats" if you look at Obama's definition of the wealthy. Those "making" above 250k. He pays corporate AND personal income on that. It's ****. What's left over is just plowed back into the company anyway. He's certainly not firing up a cigar with a Benjamin. Now, I'll admit, there's personal anger felt at the checkout line when you see the fat, sorry **** slobs paying for mountains of sugar drinks and food with a gov't card. So there's my answer. Why the hell do we have to pay for someone else who can work but won't?

    I know, I know. Privilege, oppression, racism.... But there can be no denial that making it easier for people to eat without lifting a finger is enabling that behavior.

    Social security is a joke. How many retirees am I paying for now? What poor return will I see on that money in the future? I can manage that money far better than the gov't. But it's not just the camel's nose that's under the tent, he's come all the way inside and **** on the fabric. Short story, tax cuts = automatic good thing, in my opinion. If we are so worried about the deficit, let's look at expenditures. Then I'll listen to that argument.


    Did you ever wonder how many of those food stamp users actually work fulltime jobs? What kind of retirement do you think they will be able to save for?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,535 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    It's not just welfare. That's just indicative of the largesse. It's the most visible example. Nobody here has any idea the amount of waste that goes on in federal spending.

    Do you guys really believe there is nothing we can cut? That we are so close to the verge of complete ruin that we cannot even consider cutting taxes and spending?

    I've already said that we can cut on the favorite whipping boy of the left: military. Now which one of your sacred cows can we cut next? As suspected, the infrastructure argument came up. Fire, public works, roads. Yeah, I'm all for supporting those. I obviously use them. But transportation is like 2% of the budget. Let's talk about those larger sections of federal spending.

    Finally, it's not about the measly dollars I may get back in tax refunds. And

    Mark this day on the calendar
    they'll cut taxes but wasteful spending will keep going
    the debt just grows----as well as fat cat wallets
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,365 Senior Member
    Bushart wrote: »
    Also---here's a biggie to the argument if so----Welfare in my country is distributed at the municipal level----disability at provincial---so is welfare a local level there? (and tax thereof)

    These cuts bending you over are Federal

    Medicaid and other income-dependent services are distributed by states or lower level entities like counties and municipalities, but the funding is largely federal.

    Buffy: Would you be happier were we to cut out several layers of bureaucracy and have these programs operated directly by the feds. :)
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,754 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Here's an idea. Every able bodied male that is on gov't assistance will be required to obtain successful employment. However, when said male is not out hunting for a job, he will, Monday through Friday, be required to show up to my farm and pull weeds, clear fence rows, or whatever else I need to get done.

    If there is no work to be done, then they go to a building in the middle of town and sit there from 8 to 5. I don't get to sit on MY **** all day. Why should they?

    This seems to be one of the mantras of the conservative movement, worry about what everyone else is doing.

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 9,571 Senior Member
    This seems to be one of the mantras of the conservative movement, worry about what everyone else is doing.
    Yeah, well, they're doing it with my money.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,365 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Yeah, well, they're doing it with my money.

    Stop whining. Georgia gets more federal money from other states' taxpayers than you and the other welfare recipients in (AKA "residents of") Georgia send to Washington. You mostly have Texas and New England to thank for supporting you.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,201 Senior Member
    This seems to be one of the mantras of the conservative movement, worry about what everyone else is doing.

    Not to mention govt assistance does not go to able bodied males. It goes to feed children and the majority of snap benefits go to people that work full time minimum wage jobs. But we can't raise the minimum wage. I guess they just shouldn't be able to eat.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,365 Senior Member
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,754 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Yeah, well, they're doing it with my money.

    If we are playing by that logic, I'm older than you, I've paid twice as much taxes as you so I say its A-Ok for entitlements.

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,068 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    I honestly don’t understand how middle class people can be so for this tax plan. Help me understand your thinking on this.
    Thanks for any replies.

    1.) My Tax Bracket is lowered
    2.) My Standard Deduction will be double
    3.) Eliminates mandate to buy health insurance
    4.) Keeps medical expense deduction for 2018 and 2019 @ 7.5%

    On the business end of it, it will lower my employers tax bill freeing up money for the company to expand and pay more to the employees.

    What's there not to like?
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,068 Senior Member
    Bushart wrote: »
    Well tax cuts are good for the individual wallet---

    Yes.

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,068 Senior Member
    The spending is largely defense, social security and Medicare.

    See: https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/

    Good pie charts.

    Way too much spent in the Middle East. That needs to stop in my opinion.

    http://www.newsweek.com/how-many-trillions-war-has-cost-us-taxpayer-911-attacks-705041
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,068 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    You (and I, perhaps) may get a few hundred dollars more in our pockets to spend as the super-rich continue to get more and more breaks. But if you are not worried about wage stagnation and increasing wealth disparity then I'm not going to hold it against you. We all have different priorities.

    Why do people care so much about the rich getting richer? Never understood this. I could care less about the rich getting richer.

    Matter of fact the rich, that everyone seems to hate, is the reason I stayed employed during the last economic crash. They were building multi-million dollar homes and putting the products my company makes in them. Thus I got to stay employed and so did a boat load of factory workers.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,365 Senior Member
    Why do people care so much about the rich getting richer? Never understood this. I could care less about the rich getting richer.

    Matter of fact the rich, that everyone seems to hate, is the reason I stayed employed during the last economic crash. They were building multi-million dollar homes and putting the products my company makes in them. Thus I got to stay employed and so did a boat load of factory workers.

    Most people care about having a sense of fairness in the tax system. This tax bill overwhelmingly favors the very upper income level taxpayers. Former RNC Chairman Michael Steele said that when taxpayers unwrap the GOP Christmas tax cut gift they may discover coal.

    http://www.msnbc.com/weekends-with-alex-witt/watch/fmr-rnc-chair-michael-steele-shocked-by-gop-tax-plan-1118187075921
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,201 Senior Member
    Why do people care so much about the rich getting richer? Never understood this. I could care less about the rich getting richer.

    Matter of fact the rich, that everyone seems to hate, is the reason I stayed employed during the last economic crash. They were building multi-million dollar homes and putting the products my company makes in them. Thus I got to stay employed and so did a boat load of factory workers.

    It is not about the rich getting richer, it is about the poor getting poorer. In the wealthiest country on earth people should not have to miss meals or not be able to afford health insurance while working full time. Now we are taking money from those programs that help people in those classes get by and live decent lives and giving it to wealthy people whom history demonstrates do not do anything to improve the economy with it. Trickle down is a lie.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,201 Senior Member
    1.)
    3.) Eliminates mandate to buy health insurance


    And should we go ahead and let those that refuse to buy insurance die?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 2,798 Senior Member
    And should we go ahead and let those that refuse to buy insurance die?

    It is their choice.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie just look at the flowers.
  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,533 Senior Member
    3.) Eliminates mandate to buy health insurance

    Mandate wasn't legal anyway. Yuge stake right through the heart of Obamacare, I love it.
    All of your Trout are belong to me.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,068 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    Most people care about having a sense of fairness in the tax system. This tax bill overwhelmingly favors the very upper income level taxpayers.

    What's your definition of fair considering the upper income level tax payers pay a majority of the taxes?

    https://howmuch.net/articles/high-income-americans-pay-majority-of-federal-taxes

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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