So happy I no longer live near that loney bin

24

Comments

  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,546 Senior Member
    No. He'll get a book deal and go on a signing tour. The book will be titled "Que Paso".
    All of your Trout are belong to me.
  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,546 Senior Member
    Anyway, at one point early in the investigation he said he was seal hunting and actually kicked the gun in the water after it went off. Prolly good that he changed that story. That sounds innocent enough for me.
    All of your Trout are belong to me.
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,905 Senior Member
    It was also in California that a jury acquitted the officers who beat Rodney King over and over in that video. Law and order Conservatives liked that. The fact is, the founders chose to use the jury of peers system, with the obvious chances of lousy results. Some here want to assume things about the jury which they are in fact totally ignorant of.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,758 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    I’m surprised to read of the acquittal. She must have had Skittles in her pocket.

    I'll be back to comment later when I have more time, but I wanted to give some props for this post.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,329 Senior Member
    creekguy wrote: »
    It was also in California that a jury acquitted the officers who beat Rodney King over and over in that video. Law and order Conservatives liked that. The fact is, the founders chose to use the jury of peers system, with the obvious chances of lousy results. Some here want to assume things about the jury which they are in fact totally ignorant of.

    They are also totally ignorant of the evidence presented. The only thing they know is he is a Mexican and therefore must die.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,758 Senior Member
    A couple of comments.

    1. The ricochet was deadly to the prosecution's case. It completely changes the intent requirements. One that was established, it was pretty much over.

    2. No judge in America would allow evidence of illegal reentry to be considered in a homicide prosecution. Its totally irrelevant, and its prejudicial effect substantially outweighs any probative value it might have.

    3. There's a jury instruction out there--I'm not sure if California uses it although I'm sure they have a version of it--that says in essence that if the killing occurred due to a mistake or accident there's no criminal liability.

    I'm not that surprised. I hate the sanctuary city idea, But I think the remedy is to remove the County Sheriff. A trial was always going to be a tough sell.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,555 Senior Member
    I'm happy for you guys on the left. This was a giant win, and big F you to everyone who wants our border, and the citizens that live within it protected. Congrats.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,758 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    I'm happy for you guys on the left. This was a giant win, and big F you to everyone who wants our border, and the citizens that live within it protected. Congrats.

    I'm quite certain the citizens of San Francisco want murders prosecuted. The two issues are only tangentially related, in that the defendant never should have been there in the first place. Doesn't make him guilty of murder.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,555 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    I'm quite certain the citizens of San Francisco want murders prosecuted. The two issues are only tangentially related, in that the defendant never should have been there in the first place. Doesn't make him guilty of murder.

    I understand your point Sherb. But the law has to be enforced ALWAYS if you expect people to respect it and abide by it. Surely you understand that frustration.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,758 Senior Member
    Like I said, I am definitely opposed to the Sanctuary city policy. Its outrageous that the left is basically the party of open borders now.

    The most powerful thing Trump said during the campaign was "if you don't have borders, you don't have a country." I would have phrased it a bit differently, but its true. The laws on the books have to be enforced.

    My only point is that it doesn't make the guy guilty of murder, and no jury is going to convict a guy of murder simply because he was in the country when he wasn't supposed to be. Different crime altogether. He IS getting deported, and he was found guilty of illegally possessing a firearm, so he's not totally off the hook.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 4,582 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    My only point is that it doesn't make the guy guilty of murder.

    Sherb,
    I'm not saying first or even second degree murder. But I can't see how on earth he wasn't convicted of involuntary manslaughter if he was allowed to be? Can you explain how the jury was allowed to decide on all three counts?
    “Labor unions are super-PACs. Labor unions are super-PACs Democrats like so we don’t go after labor unions .”
    -Howard Screamin Dean
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,758 Senior Member
    without more info, I really can't. Let me do some reading and see what I can come up with.
  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,546 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    Sherb,
    I'm not saying first or even second degree murder. But I can't see how on earth he wasn't convicted of involuntary manslaughter if he was allowed to be? Can you explain how the jury was allowed to decide on all three counts?

    This is where I'm at. Didn't fit the criteria for "involuntary manslaughter"?
    All of your Trout are belong to me.
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,761 Senior Member
    Its truly unfortunate that some on the right have been so thoroughly **** into a paranoid, racist and xenophobic frenzy.

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,758 Senior Member
    swizz wrote: »
    This is where I'm at. Didn't fit the criteria for "involuntary manslaughter"?

    Not if the judge gave the "mistake or accident" jury instruction. That's the only explanation. She was killed by a ricochet. Apparently, and don't quote me on this because I haven't done any close reading, the defense was able to establish that the SIG that was stolen had a fairly light trigger pull. The prosecution's case was predicated on (1) the fact that he aimed the gun at the victim (implausible) and (2) that the SIG wouldn't have just gone off as the defendant claimed it did. It looks like the defense was able to refute both theories.
  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,546 Senior Member
    Interesting. Thanks for that explanation.
    All of your Trout are belong to me.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,345 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    I'm happy for you guys on the left. This was a giant win, and big F you to everyone who wants our border, and the citizens that live within it protected. Congrats.

    No, it isn't! Like I said, I was surprised. I think the sanctuary city idea is flat out wrong. I want to stop illegal immigration. It is illegal! Don't preach to me (or other liberals) about the problem with illegal immigration without also calling out big-ag as they are a large part of the problem. Face it, it is a complex issue and those, as you know, won't ever be solved with simple or easy solutions.

    This isn't a giant middle finger to anyone except the victim's loved ones. I swear, only the true believers / Fox News viewers are the ones who see it this way.

    This is going to **** you off, but if this was a young black kid that got killed or a white, illegal immigrant guy (say, from South Africa) who did the killing nobody would care. It fits the narrative. And in case you haven't guessed by now, that narrative is racism.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,345 Senior Member
    swizz wrote: »
    This verdict will largely bolster support for Trump's agenda regarding the wall and defunding of sanctuary cities. The public appears to be pissed about this one. Watch.

    You mean the angry mob is going to be angry? Wow, that's some keen insight there. These are the same people that were launching coffee makers off of roofs a couple of weeks ago, so, yeah...
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,555 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    No, it isn't! Like I said, I was surprised. I think the sanctuary city idea is flat out wrong. I want to stop illegal immigration. It is illegal! Don't preach to me (or other liberals) about the problem with illegal immigration without also calling out big-ag as they are a large part of the problem. Face it, it is a complex issue and those, as you know, won't ever be solved with simple or easy solutions.

    This isn't a giant middle finger to anyone except the victim's loved ones. I swear, only the true believers / Fox News viewers are the ones who see it this way.

    This is going to **** you off, but if this was a young black kid that got killed or a white, illegal immigrant guy (say, from South Africa) who did the killing nobody would care. It fits the narrative. And in case you haven't guessed by now, that narrative is racism.

    Sorry for the blanket comment Shawn. A tough day at work had me in a pretty crappy mood, then this.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,555 Senior Member
    Not over yet.
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/362841-arrest-warrant-issued-for-undocumented-immigrant-acquitted-kate-steinle

    DOJ issues arrest warrant for undocumented immigrant acquitted in Kate Steinle killing
  • magallowaymagalloway Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    I understand your point Sherb. But the law has to be enforced ALWAYS if you expect people to respect it and abide by it. Surely you understand that frustration.

    From everything I've read, THE LAW was enforced, vigilante justice was denied. Please discern between the two.



    Jim
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,555 Senior Member
    magalloway wrote: »
    From everything I've read, THE LAW was enforced, vigilante justice was denied. Please discern between the two.



    Jim

    San Francisco is a sanctuary city, with local law enforcement officials barred from cooperating with federal immigration authorities.

    Zarate had been released from a San Francisco jail about three months before the shooting, despite a request by federal immigration authorities to detain him for deportation.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,345 Senior Member
    I hear ya, Mike.
    I'm frustrated too as I don't get many days off over the past couple of months. It wears on a person.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,450 Senior Member
    The Chronicle editorial suggests that not all Californians fit the airhead stereotype. But the fact remains that sanctuary cities and the perp's immigration status have nothing to do with the law and the facts of the case.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,329 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    I'm happy for you guys on the left. This was a giant win, and big F you to everyone who wants our border, and the citizens that live within it protected. Congrats.

    Seriously you need to stop dividing the world into I and they, you will be a much happier man. The two are not even remotely related.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,329 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    A couple of comments.

    1. The ricochet was deadly to the prosecution's case. It completely changes the intent requirements. One that was established, it was pretty much over.

    2. No judge in America would allow evidence of illegal reentry to be considered in a homicide prosecution. Its totally irrelevant, and its prejudicial effect substantially outweighs any probative value it might have.

    3. There's a jury instruction out there--I'm not sure if California uses it although I'm sure they have a version of it--that says in essence that if the killing occurred due to a mistake or accident there's no criminal liability.

    I'm not that surprised. I hate the sanctuary city idea, But I think the remedy is to remove the County Sheriff. A trial was always going to be a tough sell.

    MS 13 and other criminal gangs can operate more successfully in neighborhoods that are afraid to call the police because they may be deported.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,329 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »

    It is important to note that it was California that passed prop 187.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,329 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    No, it isn't! Like I said, I was surprised. I think the sanctuary city idea is flat out wrong. I want to stop illegal immigration. It is illegal! Don't preach to me (or other liberals) about the problem with illegal immigration without also calling out big-ag as they are a large part of the problem. Face it, it is a complex issue and those, as you know, won't ever be solved with simple or easy solutions.

    This isn't a giant middle finger to anyone except the victim's loved ones. I swear, only the true believers / Fox News viewers are the ones who see it this way.

    This is going to **** you off, but if this was a young black kid that got killed or a white, illegal immigrant guy (say, from South Africa) who did the killing nobody would care. It fits the narrative. And in case you haven't guessed by now, that narrative is racism.

    I have been saying for years that if you really want to stop illegal immigration, start throwing the people that hire them in prison. It will stop instantly. Conservatives always balk at that one.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,546 Senior Member
    I have been saying for years that if you really want to stop illegal immigration, start throwing the people that hire them in prison.
    This is exactly what I want as well, hopefully Sessions addresses this. There have been companies here that I am competitive with who employ illegals. I never have and it gives them an unfair advantage when bidding.
    Penalize employers, penalize sanctuary cities, and build a good border wall. These three things must occur or significant change will not.
    All of your Trout are belong to me.

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