So If Obama was Weak on This?--Now Batting..

24

Comments

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,204 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    I am not sure if this was the issue back in 2013 (if it were, then Obama shouldn't have set a red line), but the issue facing Trump today, according to the WSJ, is that we have significant boots on the ground helping to fight ISIS and they're left alone by the Assad regime. However, these guys are all reachable in an Assad retaliation.

    The bigger concern is Russia, without them Asaad would be a fool to risk open war with us. I think the biggest concern then as is now, okay, now what? What is the end goal and does a conflict with Asaad accomplish that? I suppose an air strike then would have been better than forcing Asaad to work with the Russians to eliminate them.

    I still think those weapons were Russian.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,371 Senior Member
    While we're all feeling macho-good about spanking Assad, let's hope there were no Russians at that base.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,639 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    While we're all feeling macho-good about spanking Assad, let's hope there were no Russians at that base.


    The Russians were given a heads-up ahead of time.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,070 Senior Member
    Now the world knows the difference between Trump's red line and Obama's.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,226 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    The Russians were given a heads-up ahead of time.
    And, if you believe what's going around social media... they told the Syrians, who were prepared.


    At least that's the rumor.
  • CuddyCuddy Senior Member Posts: 344 Senior Member
    Cares enough about the Syrian children to escalate the situation over there, but not enough to let them into the country.
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    Now the world knows the difference between Trump's red line and Obama's.

    Let's just forget all Trump's tweets telling Obama not to bomb Syria. Let's see what $80 million gets for bomb damage..

    Political opportunism..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,639 Senior Member
    And, if you believe what's going around social media... they told the Syrians, who were prepared.

    If I believe what's going around on social media, then I believe that the USG targeted the actual plane used to drop the Gas. And if that's the case, then the strike really will have a deterrent effect. It will be us, in effect saying, we know everything. We know where you are. We can take you out anytime we choose. But targeting the actual plane or planes seems a bit farfetched.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,639 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Trump is apparently "reconsidering" his stance on military involvement in Syria. Trump is a fairly erratic guy. If I were Assad I would think twice about provoking him.

    So I was right about that.
    sherb wrote: »
    I figure Assad thinks anything Trump wants to do will be checked by the national security establishment, but Trump doesn't strike me as the type to accede to experts.

    But I was wrong about this, since a cruise missile strike is straight out of the Natsec playbook.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,070 Senior Member
    ricinus wrote: »
    Let's just forget all Trump's tweets telling Obama not to bomb Syria. Let's see what $80 million gets for bomb damage..

    Political opportunism..

    Mike
    He's been swallowed by the swamp.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    I watched Trump's speech from Mar a Largo and wondered **** is this..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,639 Senior Member
    One other thought: its entirely possible that the Russians are pissed at Assad rather than us right now. Because it looks like Assad gassed his own people over Russia's objections, and now Russia looks like they can't control their client. Just a thought.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,371 Senior Member
    Another thought - Trump acted on emotion and instinct, "unencumbered by the thought process" as the Magliozzi's used to say. This is not good in a Commander in Chief.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,639 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    Another thought - Trump acted on emotion and instinct, "unencumbered by the thought process" as the Magliozzi's used to say. This is not good in a Commander in Chief.

    Actually-and this is worse than kissing my sister-I think I have to give Trump some credit. the word is DOD wanted to take out Assad's air force in its entirety. Trump chose a narrower path.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,371 Senior Member
    The Russians have suspended the sortie notification agreement, which could lead to one side downing the other's plane(s), by design or mistakenly. Be careful what you wish for.

    I think the time to have done this was when Obama choked. Back then a few cruise missiles also could have removed Assad and his top staff from the gene pool. It's a lot more complicated and dangerous now.

    We'll see...
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,639 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »

    I think the time to have done this was when Obama choked. Back then a few cruise missiles also could have removed Assad and his top staff from the gene pool. It's a lot more complicated and dangerous now.

    Agreed.

    I think the trick (and I don't know HOW you do this) is removing Assad and the top staff without destabilizing the regime or engaging in de-baathification, which was a total disaster in Iraq. IIRC, Assad belongs to the Baath party. Which is bad. . .but the vacuum left after he goes is probably worse.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,371 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »

    I think the trick (and I don't know HOW you do this) is removing Assad and the top staff without destabilizing the regime or engaging in de-baathification, which was a total disaster in Iraq. IIRC, Assad belongs to the Baath party. Which is bad. . .but the vacuum left after he goes is probably worse.

    This, indeed.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,549 Senior Member
    Yes--no better if ISIS takes control---or the likes
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,905 Senior Member
    There are so many takes on this, but as the pundits were saying last night: in the long run, the situation in Syria does not fundamentally change. "They" knew this might happen, and were obviously OK with the price. And what about a USA-Trump move toward isolationist policy? Is that over now? This is no different that the GWB interventionist change-the-world approach. Red Line, blah, blah, blah.

    Oh, and BTW:

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    Now that Obama’s poll numbers are in tailspin – watch for him to launch a strike in Libya or Iran. He is desperate.
    3:39 PM - 9 Oct 2012
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member
    Well, I think our official policy towards Syria may be regime change (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) while we do nothing about it except maybe some tough talk now and again. No way we can have an even larger vacuum in Syria that is already there. There aren't any good choices going forward.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,549 Senior Member
    OK---diff between this and GWB Iraq Debacle----Pretty well the whole world supports this action

    We can sing peace forever--and i still hold strong to

    Here's the crucial but----if we let the crazy's continue killing---up to 400,000 now of their own people---they need a message--The country is in ruins

    Alright---here's where I Hork up A Hairball---I believe Trump did the right thing ---and I'm an Obama Supporter

    A shot at equipment and not people---well calculated IMO
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,905 Senior Member
    Well it was a relatively SAFE thing to do which can still be called a response. No pilots put in jeopardy, no civilians killed. in fact, were there any enemy killed? (they may have been warned...gee, what a nice war.)

    Got to say, lots of people think this is all kinda fishy.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,204 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    One other thought: its entirely possible that the Russians are pissed at Assad rather than us right now. Because it looks like Assad gassed his own people over Russia's objections, and now Russia looks like they can't control their client. Just a thought.

    I still think the Russians did it.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    It sounds more and more like millions of dollars were spent bombing(?) a seldom used airfield and they were informed ahead of time that it was going to happen.

    Anybody talking about Russian collusion anymore?

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,469 Senior Member
    ricinus wrote: »
    It sounds more and more like millions of dollars were spent bombing(?) a seldom used airfield and they were informed ahead of time that it was going to happen.

    Anybody talking about Russian collusion anymore?

    Mike

    Right,, Bush era Deja Vu. Obama bombs the **** outa countries and nobody says a word. A republican does it and the whole administration, from the prez, to the first mate on the cruiser, are in on some crazy conspiracy to divert attention from an even bigger crazier conspiracy...
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    Right,, Bush era Deja Vu. Obama bombs the **** outa countries and nobody says a word. A republican does it and the whole administration, from the prez, to the first mate on the cruiser, are in on some crazy conspiracy to divert attention from an even bigger crazier conspiracy...

    Obama did it to deflect attention from his fake Birth Certificate..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 614 Senior Member
    Under the circumstances I think the missile strike was appropriate. Of course, it provides no longer term answer to the situation in Syria. The civil war there is a total tar baby and I do not have any answers.

    I do wonder, however, if this conspiracy theory will turn out to be correct: Putin is worried about the investigation(s) into the Trump campaign's connections to the Russians. He wants there to be "space" between himself and Trump. He tells Trump there will be a poison gas attack, and says "feel free to retaliate against the Syrians. We will feign outrage and the notion that you are my lap dog will be dispelled, and you can continue unfettered to be my lap dog on important matters, like blowing up NATO."
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,918 Senior Member
    The chemtrails must be bad in North Central Vermont.
  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 614 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    The chemtrails must be bad in North Central Vermont.

    They are incredible. I've been brainwashed.

    I hope you know that my conspiracy theory is a "I wish it were true" thing, since it would be so damning. I hope you know that while I can hope, I know it is not true.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,918 Senior Member
    That's good to know. Nobody wants a run on tin foil.

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