So If Obama was Weak on This?--Now Batting..

BushartBushart Senior MemberPosts: 1,549 Senior Member
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-gas-attack-syria-1.4056002

Excerpt....

"Obama threatened an air campaign to topple Assad but called it off at the last minute after the Syrian leader agreed to give up his chemical arsenal under a deal brokered by Moscow, a decision which Trump has long said proved Obama's weakness.

The new incident means Trump is faced with same dilemma that faced his predecessor: whether to openly challenge Moscow and risk deep involvement in a Middle East war by seeking to punish Assad for using banned weapons, or compromise and accept the Syrian leader remaining in power at the risk of looking weak."
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Comments

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,918 Senior Member
    CNBC reporting that Bannon has been removed from the National Security Council. The Director of National Intelligence and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs are now back.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,639 Senior Member
    I'd say this one is on Obama. I don't blame Kerry for seizing the opportunity to get rid of Assad's chemical weapons, but it didn't work and has emboldened Putin and his proxy. What to do about it is a separate question.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,371 Senior Member
    The red line was drawn and nothing was done when it was crossed, making Obama look weak. Nothing he did later overcame that first impression.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,371 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    CNBC reporting that Bannon has been removed from the National Security Council. The Director of National Intelligence and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs are now back.

    More here: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TRUMP_NATIONAL_SECURITY_COUNCIL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-04-05-12-18-48

    The NYT says this was engineered by McMaster.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,549 Senior Member
    Couple questions may be

    Why will forces be deployed in Ukraine and Poland--to deter Putin---but Syria is hands off?--short of bombing ISIS

    And why does Putin stand beside Assad so fiercely?
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,918 Senior Member
    The Russians will stand against any and all forced regime change as they see it as a threat both to international stability and to their own government (as ridiculously paranoid as that may be).

    Post Iraq and the Arab Spring, we don't have the stomach for it.
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,905 Senior Member
    Bushart wrote: »
    Couple questions may be

    Why will forces be deployed in Ukraine and Poland--to deter Putin---but Syria is hands off?--short of bombing ISIS

    And why does Putin stand beside Assad so fiercely?

    Russia has a long standing Cold War client in Syria and is reluctant to give up control there, with tragic consequences. Maybe the blame goes back to Obama, but its up to Trump to either respond militarily or let it pass, and he will look bad either way. I wonder if this is payback to Trump for not rolling back support for Ukraine or some other "agreed on" action (sarcasm alert). I do think Moscow had a role in this, so its worth looking for the real reason for this event in this world of altfacts.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,549 Senior Member
    Unfortunately a lot of innocent civilians are living that nightmare
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member
    Trump has an opportunity to right Obama's mistake. I've no clue on what type of airstrike would be punitive and proportional but I think it should be done as a deterrence to further deter chemical weapons use.
    It really is a tough situation for us.

    PS Great to see Highball **** off of the NSC!
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    This could strain the Putin/Trump bromance..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member
    I suspect Putin will have his puppet under control by week's end. ;)
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,549 Senior Member
    We will dispose of all the chemical weapons behind door #3
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 7,613 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    The red line was drawn and nothing was done when it was crossed, making Obama look weak. Nothing he did later overcame that first impression.

    True. What I don't like is Trump's tweeting history show's he thought Obama shouldn't get tough. Now Trump is saying Obama made a mistake by doing what Trump thought he should do (keep the military out of it.).
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member
    Its that type of inconsistency that will eventually get him in trouble with his base of support.


    Oh, April Fool's Day was earlier in the week? Nevermind.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,204 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    I'd say this one is on Obama. I don't blame Kerry for seizing the opportunity to get rid of Assad's chemical weapons, but it didn't work and has emboldened Putin and his proxy. What to do about it is a separate question.

    It didn't work because the Russians were the ones that were supposed to be disposing of them. Guess where they probably came from?

    But what is the Cheeto Jesus going to do? That is the more important question now.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,204 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    The red line was drawn and nothing was done when it was crossed, making Obama look weak. Nothing he did later overcame that first impression.

    I do agree to some extent. But the question is what was he supposed to do and would congress have approved it?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,639 Senior Member
    But what is the Cheeto Jesus going to do? That is the more important question now.

    He's in a jam, partly of his own making. Bombing Assad would mollify the hawks, but probably ends up emboldening Al Queda. I suppose a limited punitive strike would "send a message," but to whom? This isn't a traffic ticket, where the deterrent effect is obvious. Once the bombs start flying, so do unintended consequences.

    There are innocent civilians trapped in this mess, but there aren't any allies. There's only enemies. So my answer is: I don't have the first clue.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,469 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    He's in a jam, partly of his own making. Bombing Assad would mollify the hawks, but probably ends up emboldening Al Queda. I suppose a limited punitive strike would "send a message," but to whom? This isn't a traffic ticket, where the deterrent effect is obvious. Once the bombs start flying, so do unintended consequences.

    There are innocent civilians trapped in this mess, but there aren't any allies. There's only enemies. So my answer is: I don't have the first clue.

    Drill baby. Then, let the cavemen be cavemen.Nothing good will come from our involvement over there.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,918 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    He's in a jam, partly of his own making. Bombing Assad would mollify the hawks, but probably ends up emboldening Al Queda. I suppose a limited punitive strike would "send a message," but to whom? This isn't a traffic ticket, where the deterrent effect is obvious. Once the bombs start flying, so do unintended consequences.

    There are innocent civilians trapped in this mess, but there aren't any allies. There's only enemies. So my answer is: I don't have the first clue.

    I am not sure if this was the issue back in 2013 (if it were, then Obama shouldn't have set a red line), but the issue facing Trump today, according to the WSJ, is that we have significant boots on the ground helping to fight ISIS and they're left alone by the Assad regime. However, these guys are all reachable in an Assad retaliation.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,639 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    I am not sure if this was the issue back in 2013 (if it were, then Obama shouldn't have set a red line), but the issue facing Trump today, according to the WSJ, is that we have significant boots on the ground helping to fight ISIS and they're left alone by the Assad regime. However, these guys are all reachable in an Assad retaliation.

    Right, exactly. So regime change is our official policy towards Syria, but since we spend all of our time killing Assad's enemies AKA Islamic terrorists instead of targeting Assad, he doesn't care. So if our goal is regime change, who exactly are we proposing replace Assad? The "moderate opposition?" That doesn't exist.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,918 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    , who exactly are we proposing replace Assad?

    fishingcomic and Hextall.
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    It probably would be better to not take any unilateral action, but I doubt if Trump is capable of building a coalition..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,639 Senior Member
    Trump is apparently "reconsidering" his stance on military involvement in Syria. Trump is a fairly erratic guy. If I were Assad I would think twice about provoking him. I figure Assad thinks anything Trump wants to do will be checked by the national security establishment, but Trump doesn't strike me as the type to accede to experts.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,639 Senior Member
    Granted, Trump tends to employ superlatives more than say, the ultra-cool Obama, but he sounds really pissed about the gassing.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,549 Senior Member
    Time for Putin to sit Assad in the corner for a while and hope this goes away
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member
    Significant numbers of troops fighting ISIS, but where? In Syria? I'm sure there are special forces there but I can't begin to fathom that the number is significant. Perhaps the larger number of troops referenced are the ones in Mosul?
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member
    Boom!!!!!!
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member
    CBS News reports 60 sea-launched cruise missiles targeted a Syrian AF airfield. The same airfield in which the chemical attack was carried out from.

    Seems proportionate.
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 2,799 Senior Member
    I'm sure those missiles crossed obama's red line.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie just look at the flowers.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,639 Senior Member
    If you really want Assad to feel the pain...give him a Pepsi.
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