No discussion of the school shooting in Florida?

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Replies

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,889 Senior Member
    I know a lot of cops. And I've investigated a lot of officer involved shootings.

    They **** and moan and email my boss when they don't like deals that are cut or declines on their cases. They can be real pains in the ****, truth be told.

    But they are not cowards. They know what it means to strap on that gun and go out there and deal with drunk, high, angry, crazy people. There's just no way four sworn law enforcement officers made a collective decision to sit this one out. Peer pressure alone would have forced their hand. They were told to wait. They had to have been.

    And yes Bream, you are correct, the protocol is get in there NOW. I find it difficult to believe an agency with 6,000 employees does not have ongoing active shooter training.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,889 Senior Member
    This latest revelation is a classic case of confirmation bias: Liberals point out, hey a good guy with a gun didn't stop the shooter and you want to arm teachers to do the same? Conservatives, say, a good guy with a gun didn't stop the shooter, but maybe a teacher inside the building could have. Its very telling.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,253 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    I know a lot of cops. And I've investigated a lot of officer involved shootings.

    They **** and moan and email my boss when they don't like deals that are cut or declines on their cases. They can be real pains in the ****, truth be told.

    But they are not cowards. They know what it means to strap on that gun and go out there and deal with drunk, high, angry, crazy people. There's just no way four sworn law enforcement officers made a collective decision to sit this one out. Peer pressure alone would have forced their hand. They were told to wait. They had to have been.

    And yes Bream, you are correct, the protocol is get in there NOW. I find it difficult to believe an agency with 6,000 employees does not have ongoing active shooter training.

    So why were they told to wait? I'm not asking you, specifically, but I have to wonder....
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,781 Senior Member
    It is only my opinion here

    I believe the more civilized ---do-able --thing to do here is "build that wall".......aka locked gates to get into the school---if you want put a guard at the gate?

    Can't get in---not gonna shoot anyone----therefore no worries about arming teachers (which I think is a bad idea)---likely cheaper in the long run----and less mistakes---or "Friendly fire"

    Trump's pushing this to appease LaPierre---proving his good guy bad guy gun thing
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,253 Senior Member
    Not necessarily do-able because... cost. Folks won't want to pay the money in taxes, or others will say the money could be better spend for other school uses.

    I personally feel that making schools harder to get into is a great idea. But I lack the faith that our taxpayers or others concerned actually have the political will do do it. There are folks who have proposed this over the years, and it's been shot down because... cost. Some people also don't like the aesthetics of such a thing, and think it'll make schools like prisons.

    OTOH, if children truly are precious, shouldn't we guard them like a precious asset? But it costs too much. And it looks ugly.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 4,613 Senior Member
    This idea was discussed at one of the parent/school officer meetings at my kids school a couple of year ago. The sheriffs office was not a big fan. Said yes, it can keep people out...but it can also keep people in. He said if you go down to a single point entry you have a funnel and that can cause huge issues for fire escape, or other emergencies, or worse, you can create a kill box that will be much worse.
    “Labor unions are super-PACs. Labor unions are super-PACs Democrats like so we don’t go after labor unions .”
    -Howard Screamin Dean
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,400 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Unfortunately, as much as I don't want to say this, I have to say it. I don't like this sheriff, but I am going to give him his due right now.

    law enforcement deals with so much white noise. So many threats that don't pan out, so many "he's gonna kill me" that never amount to anything. It can be so, so difficult to ferret out the legitimate crazies from the loudmouths and the drama queens. And everyone knows it. . .right up to the minute the bomb goes off. Then in hindsight its all crystal-clear. But its never clear as its happening.

    Good point. I have stayed out of the discussion of the officer that did not enter the building also because, I don't know if I would have done a better job.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,781 Senior Member
    Yeah those same adults likely live in "Gated Communities"

    Arming and continually training armed personnel infinitely will cost as well---walls last a long time

    Hey I get it---optics are bad----not really daisy fields we grew up in----but these are the realities of what has been created
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,400 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    This idea was discussed at one of the parent/school officer meetings at my kids school a couple of year ago. The sheriffs office was not a big fan. Said yes, it can keep people out...but it can also keep people in. He said if you go down to a single point entry you have a funnel and that can cause huge issues for fire escape, or other emergencies, or worse, you can create a kill box that will be much worse.

    Not so, you can have doors that will only work when exiting the building. Have had them for years.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,253 Senior Member
    You can put in one-way exit gates. They can cost.

    Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,781 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    This idea was discussed at one of the parent/school officer meetings at my kids school a couple of year ago. The sheriffs office was not a big fan. Said yes, it can keep people out...but it can also keep people in. He said if you go down to a single point entry you have a funnel and that can cause huge issues for fire escape, or other emergencies, or worse, you can create a kill box that will be much worse.

    Engineering is a wonderful thing---think the sheriff wasn't looking big picture
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,781 Senior Member
    An American company used to pay me lots of money to troubleshoot their problems.....

    So if I had a "Burst" or broken pipe integral to production----you learn to prioritize---1st thing---fix the break

    AKA---do the logical thing to keep kids safe---put your arms around them---or keep harm at arms length

    Troubleshoot why it happened and fix it after it's up and running
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 4,613 Senior Member
    Not saying it can't help, but they were not in favor.

    I live in the same school district and am very close to Columbine High School (kids might go there, great academic program) were unfortunately the "what to do" about it for first res ponders was created largely after it happened
    “Labor unions are super-PACs. Labor unions are super-PACs Democrats like so we don’t go after labor unions .”
    -Howard Screamin Dean
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,138 Senior Member
    Poor parenting? Like letting your son own an AR-15?

    No.

    Like teaching your child whats right and wrong. You know...morals.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,575 Senior Member
    Not necessarily do-able because... cost. Folks won't want to pay the money in taxes, or others will say the money could be better spend for other school uses.

    I personally feel that making schools harder to get into is a great idea. But I lack the faith that our taxpayers or others concerned actually have the political will do do it. There are folks who have proposed this over the years, and it's been shot down because... cost. Some people also don't like the aesthetics of such a thing, and think it'll make schools like prisons.

    OTOH, if children truly are precious, shouldn't we guard them like a precious asset? But it costs too much. And it looks ugly.

    Bingo.

    A close relative of mine is an elected member of a school board operating more than fifty schools spanning urban, suburban and some rural areas and with a wide span of socioeconomic demographics. Most of the voters care less about educational standards, school safety, facilities or anything else aside from not raising school taxes.


    Also - One of the kids from Parkland was on one of the morning shows today. He pointed out that 20 years after Columbine the school's classrooms could not be locked from the inside. Probably a budget issue as well.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,781 Senior Member
    Maybe someone should start a Go-Fund me page

    Maybe try and raise say----fifty bucks

    Run down to Home depot and buy a barrel bolt/door

    It would literally be the least they could do
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,400 Senior Member
    No.

    Like teaching your child whats right and wrong. You know...morals.

    One of those morals is only a guy who is concerned about the size of his genitals has to be armed like green friggin beret.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,889 Senior Member
    So why were they told to wait? I'm not asking you, specifically, but I have to wonder....

    I don't know, honestly. Garbled communications, fog of war, could be anything, really.

    Did you see the Sheriff's interview with Jake Tapper (thank God for people like Jake tapper). I don't think the Sheriff will survive, and if he does, I imagine the voters will throw him out.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,889 Senior Member
    President bone spurs weighs in:

    https://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/968155353912369152

    Give me a break.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,432 Senior Member
    Fat **** couldn’t run 30 feet even if he did have the guts to do it.

    The school safety enhancements are DOA. Too many people would rather not pay taxes. Same with any mental health reform.

    To those who think arming teachers is a good idea, have you asked a teacher what they think?
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 1,889 Senior Member
    If this is true, its definitely a fog of war type situation. No way to know. The lawyers are involved now.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/news/375640-florida-deputy-thought-shooting-was-outside-school-lawyer?__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true

    Here's what I know: I hope it was worth it to the Sheriff to save his **** by throwing that deputy to the wolves. Trust me, his troops won't soon forget that, and even if they think that guy a coward, I promise the way this has been handled has left a bad taste in their mouth. Its not going to save the sheriff, and the effect on morale will be devastating.

    Also, Broward county owns a Lamborghini, probably from a drug seizure. I think maybe they should sell it and send some Sgt's and LT's to active shooter training.
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,099 Senior Member
    The word out (I didn't read the earlier page) that the "cop" thought the shots were coming from outside, the three that came next thought the same thing. It would be loud and determining the location with all the echos inside would be hard. Possibly this is true, maybe not. All I know is that people sure want to jump to conclusions. I did about the first cop, but that may have been a mistake. Maybe he was covering his ****, the point is we don't know.
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • saltydancindavesaltydancindave Senior Member Posts: 2,309 Senior Member
    Wetdog wrote: »
    The word out (I didn't read the earlier page) that the "cop" thought the shots were coming from outside, the three that came next thought the same thing. It would be loud and determining the location with all the echos inside would be hard. Possibly this is true, maybe not. All I know is that people sure want to jump to conclusions. I did about the first cop, but that may have been a mistake. Maybe he was covering his ****, the point is we don't know.

    Evening news just reported that the "outside noise" was someone just setting off firecrackers......
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,400 Senior Member
    l-would-have-run-into-school-during-shooting-even-without-31168866.png
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,400 Senior Member
    i-would-run-into-a-school-during-shooting-evenifldidnt-have-31169336.png
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • saltydancindavesaltydancindave Senior Member Posts: 2,309 Senior Member

    @Bushart said:
    OK..Your either a lunatic or a Genius......Give us the true hint

    Seems any intellectual prowess from a continued Arab jihad against Israel doesn't stand up to US school shootings, but then again this "serve the Pope or die" megalomaniacal compulsive-obsession to even own Einstein with pseudoscience is about as hilarious as the supreme swastika up Uranus court dictates of the Federal KKK Lynching churchstate of hate in reverence of Islam-Arab flying carpet airplane kamikaze terrorists, whom are now on a religiously as holy as Allah, Mohammud & a flying flaming chariot for all intents & purposes from the second coming thru 9/11 where if it wasn't a plane, but a missile or controlled demolition to keep it of Christiananality pedophile mentality as immaculate conception for the 21st century art.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,781 Senior Member

    @saltydancindave said:

    @Bushart said:
    OK..Your either a lunatic or a Genius......Give us the true hint

    Seems any intellectual prowess from a continued Arab jihad against Israel doesn't stand up to US school shootings, but then again this "serve the Pope or die" megalomaniacal compulsive-obsession to even own Einstein with pseudoscience is about as hilarious as the supreme swastika up Uranus court dictates of the Federal KKK Lynching churchstate of hate in reverence of Islam-Arab flying carpet airplane kamikaze terrorists, whom are now on a religiously as holy as Allah, Mohammud & a flying flaming chariot for all intents & purposes from the second coming thru 9/11 where if it wasn't a plane, but a missile or controlled demolition to keep it of Christiananality pedophile mentality as immaculate conception for the 21st century art.

    K...Got it

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