Is This Really Necessary?

Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior MemberPosts: 613 Senior Member
Trump Administration Rules That Nearly 200,000 Salvadorans Must Leave, Officials Say

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/08/us/salvadorans-tps-end.html

I get it that their admittance to the country was supposed to be temporary, but this seems harsh.
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Comments

  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 2,798 Senior Member
    They did know this going in. This is why these programs are bad once they get here they have no intention of leaving.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie just look at the flowers.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,912 Senior Member
    Not a fan (but never been a fan of almost any immigration restriction - except that needed to ensure public safety).

    We're at, or near, full employment. We need the workers.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,535 Senior Member
    Oprah's gonna straighten all this out
  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 613 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Not a fan (but never been a fan of almost any immigration restriction - except that needed to ensure public safety).

    We're at, or near, full employment. We need the workers.

    That is what I am thinking. Moreover, the vast majority of these people, and the Haitians and Dreamers who are in the same predicament, are simply trying to do what all of our ancestors did--try to achieve the American Dream.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,912 Senior Member
    Of course they are, but too many people believe we're full up and "the inn is closed."

    (see who gets that reference)
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,535 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Of course they are, but too many people believe we're full up and "the inn is closed."

    (see who gets that reference)

    Yes but can you find 3 wise men?
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,912 Senior Member
    Bushart wrote: »
    Yes but can you find 3 wise men?

    Uhmmm...no.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,068 Senior Member
    Is there something about the word "temporary" that isn't understood here?
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,912 Senior Member
    Is there something about the word "temporary" that isn't understood here?

    No.

    But outside of upholding the law (ten years late) is there a good reason for doing this? Will forcing these people back to El Salvador make life better or worse for the rest of us?
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,068 Senior Member
    But that isn't the point is it?





    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,912 Senior Member
    It's up to the President. It could be.
  • CO NativeCO Native Senior Member Posts: 820 Senior Member
    Personally I say let them stay unless they've been arrested. Arrested for ANYTHING, gets them deported. The last thing we need is more criminals, we got plenty of them from south of the border already.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,068 Senior Member
    Maybe they shouldn't call it "Temporary" Protected Status?



    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,912 Senior Member
    The law hasn't been adhered to. But that's a sunk cost and really shouldn't be part of the calculation regarding whether to now let them stay.
  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 613 Senior Member
    Yeah, they were admitted on a "temporary" basis. I get that. But they have been here for ten years. Being hard assed just for the sake of being hard assed doesn't seem like good policy.

    It all goes to the larger issue of the fact that there are a lot of people in the country who either entered the country illegally or were admitted on a temporary basis, but have been here a long time and are productive members of society. I fully understand that cutting slack for them may encourage others to come. But, I think that a rigorous, i.e., challenging (no criminal record, documentation of long term presence in the country, etc) naturalization program would be OK.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,462 Senior Member
    Yeah, they were admitted on a "temporary" basis. I get that. But they have been here for ten years. Being hard assed just for the sake of being hard assed doesn't seem like good policy.

    It all goes to the larger issue of the fact that there are a lot of people in the country who either entered the country illegally or were admitted on a temporary basis, but have been here a long time and are productive members of society. I fully understand that cutting slack for them may encourage others to come. But, I think that a rigorous, i.e., challenging (no criminal record, documentation of long term presence in the country, etc) naturalization program would be OK.

    Agree 100%.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,365 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Uhmmm...no.

    Nor a virgin, if you are referring to the joke about about Jesus was supposed to have been born in ___________ (fill in the blank)
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 2,798 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    No.

    But outside of upholding the law (ten years late) is there a good reason for doing this? Will forcing these people back to El Salvador make life better or worse for the rest of us?

    Don't see how it could be worse.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie just look at the flowers.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,912 Senior Member
    We're at full employment, Buford, so yeah, removing a ton of employed immigrants could make it worse.

    But let's suppose it didn't make things better or worse...it certainly makes things worse for the people we're deporting. From a utilitarian standpoint, why should we do it?

    It makes no difference to us, and is a major negative to them. Does doing this make any sense?
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,912 Senior Member
    The inn is closed was Have Rod's favorite line to justify his anti-immigrant stance.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,365 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    The inn is closed was Have Rod's favorite line to justify his anti-immigrant stance.


    "I'm inside, so it's OK to close the barn door" is another way of putting it.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,068 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    We're at full employment, Buford, so yeah, removing a ton of employed immigrants could make it worse.

    Others wouldn't step in and take those jobs?
    But let's suppose it didn't make things better or worse...it certainly makes things worse for the people we're deporting. From a utilitarian standpoint, why should we do it?

    It makes no difference to us, and is a major negative to them. Does doing this make any sense?

    I guess I have mixed feelings on this. Why should we keep allowing exceptions to immigration? Kind of seems with immigrants that they think "if we can just get there and manage to stay under the radar long enough they will let us stay forever"
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,912 Senior Member
    Who? We're at full employment. Fun Iowa Factoid: Ames, Iowa (the home of Iowa State) has the lowest unemployment in the nation at 1%.

    I hear you, but deporting people who came here legally, have been here for 10 years legally (not under the radar) and even have kids born here is closing the barn door long, long, long after the horse has left.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,068 Senior Member
    Who? I'm sure we still have people sitting in the job lines waiting for something to come up.

    I get what you are saying though, that's why I have mixed feeling on the whole deal.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,912 Senior Member
    You'll always have some level of frictional unemployment. We're beginning to see real wage increases which speaks to the lack of slack in employment.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,535 Senior Member
    Well with approx 83 Million more people on this planet this year over last----Leaders better soon come up with an idea on immigration...and finite resources
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,912 Senior Member
    It appears that Thomas Maltus just stopped by to say hello.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,201 Senior Member
    I guess I have mixed feelings on this. Why should we keep allowing exceptions to immigration? Kind of seems with immigrants that they think "if we can just get there and manage to stay under the radar long enough they will let us stay forever"

    So basically it is not about economic impact with you. You just don't like immigrants.

    99% of us are from immigrant heritage and our forbearers had to do just that. Stay under the radar and they could stay forever. You know what my great grandfather had to do to come her? Get on a boat. That's it.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 1,912 Senior Member
    So basically it is not about economic impact with you. You just don't like immigrants.

    Or maybe Joe just believes laws should be enforced. That's my takeaway from both Joe and Buford.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,201 Senior Member
    Maybe Joe. But Buford has been **** about immigrants destroying our culture for decades.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
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